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Bad Experience Fluid Motor Union Gallardo Kevlar Clutch Install

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6.4K views 31 replies 13 participants last post by  GTE Engineering  
#1 · (Edited)
Extraordinary levels of incompetence, arrogance and dishonesty.

I emailed Fluid Jan 2021 to inquire about Gallardo replacement clutches. Asked about oem and kevlar, was quoted a Hitech Exotic Kevlar 300 clutch by their technician Donny Dumber.

Quote and emails show that the Hitech 300 Clutch included a parts AND labor warranty vs none with OEM. Donny also states that Fluid does have experience with these clutches, stands behind the quality of their repairs and that the HT kevlar clutches are great for the street.

I also contacted Hitech to ask questions and based on all the information presented by Donny/Fluid I ultimately decided on the HT350 (upgrade from 300).

Clutch was installed October 2021, when the car was picked up 1st gear engagement was not smooth. Car would jolt/buck off the line. I informed the tech and was told to let it break in for 1000 miles

Once car was home also started to leak oil and differential was groaning (did not do before clutch install). Decided to take the car to my local shop to have those 2 issues addressed (paid additional out of pocket). These 2 issues were missed by Fluid when car was in their possession.

As clutch got broken in, engagement was still rough. Also in reverse car would bounce up/down revs but not move. Went back to Fluid March 2022 to reset the PIS (clutch engagement point). PIS was changed multiple levels and upon the last setting car revved up to 4K rpm but would not move (clutch slipping). Then did other programming/etc before leaving. Car still did not drive correctly.

Kevlar clutches are supposed to grab more as they heat but since Fluid installed/setup the clutch would slip as it got warm. Went back several times to Fluid (March - May 2022) to recalibrate the PIS and b/w those visits clutch would be too grabby, drag b/w shifts, stall at low speeds or slip. At one of those appointments Donny informed me if I kept returning I would be charged for the tech's time. I told him he was being ridiculous, that I was wasting my time to drive out to their shop so they could fix what they could not get right. Also that the clutch included 2 yr parts/labor (actually 3 since HT350 was installed vs HT300)

Clutch then proceeded to make an awful squealing sound in 1st gear and reverse (see videos). At this point had already returned to Fluid 5 times and they still could not figure out the issue. I contacted the manufacturer Hitech and during the entire process Sean was extremely helpful. He had spoken to Fluid about how to setup/calibrate the clutch but they could not get it right. Sean/Hitech agreed to warranty to clutch/parts without issue but needed Fluid to open the car up 1st.

Fluid then kept delaying a time for the car to come in, texting they had figure out the labor portion of the repair/work. Donny called me saying Hitech agreed to warranty the parts and that the only issue was labor. I told him explicitly I would not be paying for labor again. That it was their responsibility to figure out the issue. Donny then tried to fault the clutch claiming it was not meant for street driving and doing so might have cause the clutch disc to glaze/burn. I stated warranty was included (see orig emails/quotes) and his response was that it wasn't because a clutch is a wearable part.

Then spoke to the owner OJ, who tried to agree to fix the car (not till Sept/Oct 2022??) BUT required that I had to be "nice to him." I said I don't need to be anything, all that needs to happen is the warranty honored. He said there was no warranty on clutches and that it was my issue because I recommended the clutch (not true from emails). He also stated that he was a small business and that I should be understanding if he needed to pay his techs labor again and that some of his customers would offer to pay labor again. I said I did not care, that I'm not one of those customers and other shops I work with (only used Fluid bc they have a Lara computer for PIS programming) will cover labor during the repair/fix if any issues to make it right and he was shocked that those businesses that took care of their customers are somehow operating.

Ultimately the phone call escalated. I asked why it was my responsibility to figure out labor costs for a repair to which Donny Dumber stated "well its your money". OJ ended with saying he didn't need any of this that is prepared to go legal if needed. Even if OJ agreed to honor his warranty I had zero confidence in Fluid's work.

Sean from Hitech was able to send one of his own techs with software to diagnose the car. He reprogrammed the PIS and tested the clutch. Mechanically no issues with the clutch and now driveability/engagement are smoother than the stock clutch I had before. All the time/effort with Fluid and they could never get it right even after charging me close to $20K.

From my experience Fluid will not stand by their work, will not honor their warranties and most importantly do not possess the level of competence/desire to provide quality service.


Fluid Motor Union Lamborghini Gallardo Incorrect Clutch Setup Squeal 2

Fluid Motor Union Lamborghini Gallardo Incorrect Clutch Setup Squeal 3

Khanh
 

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#3 ·
Makes you wonder what attitude these people get up with each day towards 'ethical' business practices. HA - the 'imbecile' threatening to "...go legal..." rather than adhere to written undertakings (AKA - the warranty etc) - HMMMMMMMM - not what you would call a bright spark' - and sounds to me - more like a 'scammer' trying to bluff someone out of their legal rights. Unless the warranty was a useless piece of gobbledegook (and they can sometimes be) - the business sold you a product with a parts and labour warranty = a 'CONTRACT OF PERFORMANCE' (for want of a batter term here) and they must therefore legally adhere to those written undertakings - OR - be liable for their non-performance.

The best outcome for you is that finally you got your vehicle working correctly, the 'BETTER' outcome would be not to use their services ever again and also inform others not to use their services, and for cretins like this to go out of business.

I once listened to an interview of a national franchise owner and he made mention that he encouraged complaints, because complaints meant that they could address the situation and do their best to ensure that that situation never arose again. Customer satisfaction was and is their top priority, for without customers, you then have no business.

'Warning' others of the possible outcome if they engage such cretins to work on their vehicles, is a 'public service announcement' - HA. Thanks for sharing your unfortunate experience and great that at least one party stepped up and solved the issue for you = CUSTOMER SERIVCE.

As much as we all are guilty of looking back and thinking about a more effective manner that we could have dealt with the situation - do not be shy of engaging legal advise EARLY in the situation. Unfortunately, many people think that lawyers get 'money for nothing' (HA - I wish) - removing oneself from the emotional delivery of a 'GET F-CKED' to the offending party, is often a wise move. Yes, I am a lawyer, YES, I engage my eldest lawyer son to deal with certain matters for me rather than letting my emotional attachment to the situation result in things escalating out of control. Sometimes, a 'few dollars' of legal advise//approach can reduce ones stress. Have a safe and nice day. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Here is the how the car drives now after Sean from Hitech sent out Guillermo (Dreamcar Workshop) to program the PIS.


I was shocked how well/different the car drove with proper settings.

The Fluid Tech (Mike) that did the install/programming on my car did put in his best efforts to try and get it working but ultimately fell short.

The main irritation was dealing with with the lack of accountability and defensiveness from Donny (service advisor) and owner OJ. After following up with Sean from Hitech to get more info on setup/calibration to confirm with OJ, he would dismiss that information and claim things such as “we did what the manufacturer states, there is only 1 setting and you keep wanting to change it..we are trying to make you happy…”

OJ was misinformed on the product/setup and therefore was not able to direct his team to complete the work properly.

Khanh
 
#6 · (Edited)
I'd like to hear from Sean at Hitech what is so tricky about setting up the clutch that a qualified technician can somehow mess it up over and over again?

Is setting up the HT350 significantly different than OEM?
According to Guillermo (Dreamcar Workshop) who Sean coordinated to come fix the issue and has lots of experience setting up his Hitech Kevlar clutches, the clutch wear on the new clutch showed as 86%. Fluid used Lara software and Guillermo Texa. It seemed the degradation index was not reset upon the new clutch install. Because of this subsequent PIS settings did not work. Clutch never engaged smoothly, would slip as it got hotter and then squeal upon cold starts in 1st/reverse.

Because of this behavior OJ/Donny tried to blame "city and stop/go driving" for the clutch potentially getting overheated/glazed/damaged and as such were reluctant to honor their original quoted labor warranty to fix the issue. They would also say kevlar was not meant for street driving, not as smooth as oem. I then asked WHY they recommend/quoted Hitech's Kevlar clutches and say themselves they are great on the street and include labor warranty??

Biggest problem is OJ/Donny/Fluid never acknowledged the clutch was not engaging properly. Upon my initial drive of the car after install and reporting to the tech Mike the car shunts/jolts in 1st gear, he thought it might be bc the car was converted to 2WD so had less driveline to absorb the kevlar engagement. After several complaints/trips OJ was certain Fluid did everything correct but ultimately did not and could never (want to) figure it out.

Guillermo upon a few feet of driving my car was able to diagnose the clutch was not working properly. He reset everything and started from square 1. Took bout 2.5 hours to set the PIS, do several drives, heat the clutch to ensure no mechanical damage and got everything to work smoothly/properly. A true experienced professional. He is based out of Spain but travels internationally and can do mobile repairs/installs/setups. He just happened to be in town for another Gallardo Hitech Clutch install.


Khanh
 
#7 ·
What a crazy experience. If I’m understanding the issue correctly they simply skipped some of the routine programming steps when doing the initial install. Could have been a recovered mistake if they had only started from scratch with the reprogramming during one of the “repairs”. Sad that it ate up 14% wear before being addressed (on a Kevlar clutch, no less!!). I’ve not used LaRa but Texa literally walks you through the steps, it’s completely autonomous, and it takes under an hour from what I remember.
 
#8 ·
Upon reprogramming with Guillermo the new clutch was shown initially as 86% worn down, 14% life. When I purchased the car a few yrs ago it showed about 70% worn, 30% remaining.

It seems the ecu/tcu was using 86% worn down as the starting point for a full thickness clutch therefore the calculations for the TOB distance travel were all screwed up.

He reset the degradation index so showed as 100% life then set the PIS.

He drove the car and knew it drove poorly so thought to reset everthing. Fluid kept assuring themselves it drove fine, so were not fully motivated to dig deeper/think backwards.

For more specifics can reach out to Sean/Guillermo, my posts are all based on my best attempt to understand the reasons surrounding this issue. Thx.

Khanh
 
#14 ·
This is similar to the Japanese launching a rocket to space without first checking for nitrogen leak. Just because nitrogen is colorless, odorless, and inert, it does not mean it doesn't explode. Prep is everything and that company sucks at prep stage. Something wasn't calibrated properly before putting the real thing in.
 
#16 ·
Yes - any company not standing by a written warranty//guarantee does not deserve business - HA - except from sycophantic love boys - HA. But I guess they stand by their warranty on an exhaust when someone kisses them and sends them love letters - HA.
 
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#21 · (Edited)
Hi

I can only say good thinks about Fluid & Co. they installed PEGA Clutch products with %0 setting or installation problems! (y)(y)(y)

With our products you do need any specialist just follow the OEM setting procedures.

About the product...



I can say this to all, with PEGA Clutch you don't and will not have %100 non of this at ALL!!! simple and clean...

This is not a to smear of anyone's product its a PAID Advertisement as a vendor and 2 Lamborghini owner and a Tech with 20+ years hands on Lamborghini 15+ years Company owner and product developer and installer of his own product..
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hey teoh2005

Glad to see that you have finely fixed your problem with this clutch!! one think we like to highlight this do to your description:
Bad Experience xluix xotor xniox Gallardo Kevlar Clutch Install

Not all "Kevlar" Clutch linings are the same please see the picture below. that's what it's better as you have corrected on your 2. post the description should be :
Bad Experience xluid xotox xnion Gallardo Hitech Exotic 350 Kevlar Clutch Install


You purchased a Hitech Exotic 350 Kevlar Clutch and had a Bad Experience as it was all most impossible for a workshop to set it up right! But see the picture bellow our PEGA Kevlar is different! so please correct the description and dont say Just Kevlar Bad Experience clutch because it is not the same at all..

Its like saying "bad tire" experience.. but OK whose tire ?... and you corrected your self on saying

Hitech Exotic 350 Kevlar Clutch and LWFW Review, Dreamcar Workshop (Guillermo) Setup
Image




Video with Bad Experience Gallardo Hitech Exotic 350 Kevlar Clutch Install


Vido with Great Experience Gallardo PEGA FXSS-SC Kevlar Clutch Install


Thank you
 
#24 · (Edited)
Glad that problems are solved
 
This post has been deleted
#25 ·
What a shameful attempt for a vendor to promote their own product by talking bad about another vendor's product. It's clear that the OP's original issue was related to the install (by Fluid Motor Union) and completely unrelated to the type of clutch used.

Good on Hi Tech Exotic for not only being ready to stand behind their product with the parts warranty (had it been necessary) but also going above and beyond to help OP sort his issue by coordinating service for him from a subject matter expert simply because he was using their product, and moreover coming back to keep things straight on a 2 year old thread that got dug up with ill intent. That's how you run a successful business. (y)
 
#30 ·
By far we are not Competitors :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:...
We left them unanswered for over a decade and I just couldn't keep this BS any more 🤪
 
#31 ·
Sean at HiTec for the win. Each. And. Every. Time.

It seems that GTE has been the instigator in quite a few threads. And GTE is probably a nice guy too, but its a bad look, all this saber rattling.

Sean, I'd say no more than like 1 rebuttal or else it makes you look bad too.

There's that saying, arguing with a pig only frustrates you and gets you muddy while, on the other hand, the pig likes it.
 
#32 ·
Ravill

Problem solved :cool: No more building, Smearing and/or lying about us and/or our products at Lamborghini-Talk or any other platform!!!

- We are one of the utmost reputable and know Lamborghini workshop and parts developer/engineering workshop in the US as well in EU! How you even dear with that crap to smear us!

Respect is not a privilege is earned.

Image
 
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