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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:40 PM
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All evidence I’ve seen (market level) is the economy is fine. China talks bog down certain companies who do business and are in China but other than that besides the media, everything looks good.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:59 PM
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The supercar market seems soft right now.

That could be due to a number of reasons...
-Recession fears.
-Glut of a excellent used supercars
-Too many shiny new models announced or in production.
-More competitors than ever before.

The 488 GTB prices are a great deal right now for a great car. You can get a brand new R8 V10+ or a used 488 GTB for the same price. It's a no brainer.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2019, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEAT View Post
The supercar market seems soft right now.

That could be due to a number of reasons...
-Recession fears.
-Glut of a excellent used supercars
-Too many shiny new models announced or in production.
-More competitors than ever before.

The 488 GTB prices are a great deal right now for a great car. You can get a brand new R8 V10+ or a used 488 GTB for the same price. It's a no brainer.
-Some owners waiting on sidelines for 2008-9 repeat when dealers couldn't get rid of Scuderia's and owners were selling back their 6 month-old 911's because they were taking a beating in the stock market.

-McLaren changed the game with carbon fiber body, rockstar doors, crazy HP and continues pumping out new models/iterations and competing in the same market as Ferrari and Lambo. Seems reliability has improved with the 720s and 600LT generation. Why does the Pista have exactly the same HP as the 720s? Because Ferrari is playing catchup. Lambo always kept their models for a long run with tons of different flavors but now Ferrari and McLaren are both coming out with several new models every year. 5 new Ferrari models for 2019 alone. Very unusual for Ferrari and contributing to the depreciation of recent models. Seems like they are taking a page from Lamborghini with the 458-Speciale-488-Pista-F8 Tributo being evolutionary trying to milk an existing platform for as long as possible. All because Ferrari is now a publicly traded company and has to answer to stakeholders.

-Porsche GT2 RS similar price range as 580-2, 570s. My friend's GT2 RS was $360K sticker. Crazy for a Porsche that's not a CGT or 918. More competition for same pool of buyers.

-458's will prolly retain relative value more than 488's because they represent the last of the NA V8 and have a more analog feel. 458 Spider was the best car I've owned and I am not thrilled with the Turbo lag and sound of the 488 which precipitated my move to Lamborghini. The 458 has such direct throttle response and steering that it feels hardwired to my brain.

-I wonder in the future as cars become too fast to enjoy on the street, heavier with hybridized tech, worse sounding with Turbo engines and GPF and more like an appliance to drive if buyers will go backwards or retain ownership of cars that offer a more visceral driving experience like Ford GT, 458/Speciale, CGT/GT3/GT3RS, Huracan/HP etc?

Last edited by surfah; 09-17-2019 at 07:35 PM.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2019, 07:27 PM
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Too many supercar models, not enough buyers. All the manufacturers keep pumping out models and they're finding buyers but it looks like things might slow come next year.

In regards to the HP, I believe the EVO played a role in HP prices dipping because after all it is the "new" model. The other thing that might be in play is there's buyers waiting for the HP variant of the EVO. The rumour right now is the EVO HP will be very limited and priced fairly high but you can never trust rumours because as we all know Lamborghini usually does the opposite.

I believe the HP will stabilize but at what price that's anyone's guess.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfah View Post
-Some owners waiting on sidelines for 2008-9 repeat when dealers couldn't get rid of Scuderia's and owners were selling back their 6 month-old 911's because they were taking a beating in the stock market.

-McLaren changed the game with carbon fiber body, rockstar doors, crazy HP and continues pumping out new models/iterations and competing in the same market as Ferrari and Lambo. Seems reliability has improved with the 720s and 600LT generation. Why does the Pista have exactly the same HP as the 720s? Because Ferrari is playing catchup. Lambo always kept their models for a long run with tons of different flavors but now Ferrari and McLaren are both coming out with several new models every year. 5 new Ferrari models for 2019 alone. Very unusual for Ferrari and contributing to the depreciation of recent models. Seems like they are taking a page from Lamborghini with the 458-Speciale-488-Pista-F8 Tributo being evolutionary trying to milk an existing platform for as long as possible. All because Ferrari is now a publicly traded company and has to answer to stakeholders.

-Porsche GT2 RS similar price range as 580-2, 570s. My friend's GT2 RS was $360K sticker. Crazy for a Porsche that's not a CGT or 918. More competition for same pool of buyers.

-458's will prolly retain relative value more than 488's because they represent the last of the NA V8 and have a more analog feel. 458 Spider was the best car I've owned and I am not thrilled with the Turbo lag and sound of the 488 which precipitated my move to Lamborghini. The 458 has such direct throttle response and steering that it feels hardwired to my brain.

-I wonder in the future as cars become too fast to enjoy on the street, heavier with hybridized tech, worse sounding with Turbo engines and GPF and more like an appliance to drive if buyers will go backwards or retain ownership of cars that offer a more visceral driving experience like Ford GT, 458/Speciale, CGT/GT3/GT3RS, Huracan/HP etc?
I agree with you on the 458 and am also a NA fan. I love my G's and can't ever sell my Pre-LP and it's the best engine sound on the planet!
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2019, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LamboLP View Post
I agree with you on the 458 and am also a NA fan. I love my G's and can't ever sell my Pre-LP and it's the best engine sound on the planet!
Good for you. Sometimes we don't appreciate what we drive until it's gone.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Gh0st0 View Post
458ís are already pretty beaten and continue to go down

I donít think so. Damn.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Ferrar...sAAOSwHzFdg1ms
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2019, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason B View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gh0st0 View Post
458’s are already pretty beaten and continue to go down

I don’t think so. Damn.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Ferrar...sAAOSwHzFdg1ms
This is definitely not true. A clean low mile 2011 458 isn’t that much cheaper than a 2016 488. Maybe 30k tops. I’ll say this, I paid 25k less for my 458 than what I was about to buy a 488 for a few months ago.
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Last edited by Jr Mint; 09-23-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2019, 03:08 AM
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I think recession planning is real. I wouldn't call it fear, but I know I'm accounting for it in 2020 planning and others have to be as well. There's also a ton of super cars on the market both new and used.

That being said - the Huracan is pretty unique in that it has an NA engine that doesn't sound like cats being beaten to death so while volume will hurt prices in the short term I think prices will stabilize when the replacement goes into production.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2019, 05:47 AM
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Recession planning, meaning monetary savings?
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