Lamborghini Talk banner

Which will prevail ?

  • Battery Power

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Hydrogen Fuel Cell

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Other type 'experimental' power or Fuel Cell

    Votes: 5 50.0%
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
2011 LP560-4 Spyder / Blu Fontus
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

·
Premium Member
2021 Huracan EVO RWD Spyder Verde Themis
Joined
·
16,637 Posts
I am sure the electric car batteries today will become obsolete in near future. They’re too big, heavy and what will we do with waste once they start dying? Lamborghini is using super capacitors in the Sian.
 

·
Registered
2011 LP560-4 Spyder / Blu Fontus
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There are so many technologies on the table, and this sudden scramble I fear may cause problems down the road. Investments in charging stations may fizzle out when something better comes out. Who's making the decisions on Standards, just like they had to do with OBD II and now what will happen to that....... kind of scary IMO
 

·
Registered
2021 Huracan Evo RWD Spyder (ordered, April 2021 delivery)
Joined
·
329 Posts
For the next decade or so I think there will be a lot of pressure to upgrade frequently. EV tech is evolving rapidly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
655 Posts
For the next decade or so I think there will be a lot of pressure to upgrade frequently. EV tech is evolving rapidly.
Look at the solar panel industry. Panels made 5 years ago are garbage compared to what’s being produced today.

the key to sustainability is a car design that allows the power source to be swapped out, I.e. modular design such that any power source can be swapped in, in a matter of hours.

fun times we are living
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Batteries historically improve about 7% per year - so it's not exactly Moore's law, but rather than steady progress. Given technology is becoming a larger part of new car sales anyways, cars are becoming "obselete" sooner along a host of dimensions anyways. I worked in Li-Ion battery manufacturing in 2009-2011, it was entirely predictable cost curves would come down as people are historically very bad at understanding compounding. 10 years later costs have halved as expected and the leap to electrification is now obvious.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Look at the resale value of Teslas versus Hellcats.
Hellcats are being bought, now, used, at more than was paid for them, new.
Teslas? LOL
LOL
and LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
You get maybe 1/3 of what you paid.
 

·
Registered
2011 LP560-4 Spyder / Blu Fontus
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Look at the resale value of Teslas versus Hellcats.
Hellcats are being bought, now, used, at more than was paid for them, new.
Teslas? LOL
LOL
and LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
You get maybe 1/3 of what you paid.
Yikes, good point.... my garage is full, everything is paid off except for the Daily Driver. I'm satisfied for now so I think I'll just sit back and watch the mystery unfold over the next few years.
Can it be those who have an affinity for new tech / electric cars are already driving them? More and more are going to enter the market and the vast majority of people will be so afraid of them they won't sell. The used car market will flourish and then maybe new problems will arise:
1) The Government will pay (as the trend is right now) and subsidize these new hybrid/electric car sales..... like some program to pay for half of your new car. Why not, it's in their plan to pay for all this other crap.
2) They will Force it upon us by implementing some Outrageous GAS TAX. $6, $7, $8 a gallon.... WHAT?
 

·
Registered
2021 Huracan Evo RWD Spyder (ordered, April 2021 delivery)
Joined
·
329 Posts
It’ll be horse for courses for me…
EVO RWD for weekend fun and glorious soundtrack
keeping my S Cab for long trips in comfort and no worrying about charging
I‘d consider an EV as a city car, where I don’t worry about range, can charge at home and can avoid creepy gas stations, but my little Subaru SUV is cheap to operate, will last 200K miles, and can drive in any weather… so any EV has to compete with Subie’s value proposition. I doubt I’ll have an EV any time soon…
 

·
Premium Member
2021 Huracan EVO RWD Spyder Verde Themis
Joined
·
16,637 Posts
I think people planning on going electric should hold off for a bit longer. There is some new stuff coming that will be improved improved over current models. Keep you eye on Ford.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
I think people planning on going electric should hold off for a bit longer. There is some new stuff coming that will be improved improved over current models. Keep you eye on Ford.
Holding off for years would be a pain in the ***.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Look at the resale value of Teslas versus Hellcats.
Hellcats are being bought, now, used, at more than was paid for them, new.
Teslas? LOL
LOL
and LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
You get maybe 1/3 of what you paid.
And how many Hellcats were sold in total?
 

·
Premium Member
2022 Huracan EVO RWD (Ordered)
Joined
·
5,852 Posts
Holding off for years would be a pain in the ***.
Agree, what does every man, women, and child have in common irrespective of age, well, the converse of the Rolling Stones lyric "time is my side".

I personally am not supportive of any of the options presented above. What has prevailed in my heart and mind is the 10-Cylinder NA engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
Batteries historically improve about 7% per year - so it's not exactly Moore's law, but rather than steady progress. Given technology is becoming a larger part of new car sales anyways, cars are becoming "obselete" sooner along a host of dimensions anyways. I worked in Li-Ion battery manufacturing in 2009-2011, it was entirely predictable cost curves would come down as people are historically very bad at understanding compounding. 10 years later costs have halved as expected and the leap to electrification is now obvious.
I agree with this. In general I don't think EV's will become any more obsolete than they're equivalent size/price IC engine lineage though battery replacements are inevitable as a maintenance item. There are a lot of other things and features that people want as cars evolve, things that a car without is then perceived as old and becomes obsolete. Recent examples I'd say are key-less go/push button start, bluetooth connectivity, reverse cameras (now mandated), large center infotainment screens, Apple Carplay, driver assist features, LCD gauge clusters, etc. All of these types of things combined is what drives cars to become obsolete.

Also comparing value of all of one manufacturer's vehicles to a specific, high end model of another's (ie "Teslas versus Hellcats") is not a good indicator of the depreciation disparity (if in fact any exists) between current EV and IC engine vehicles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
I agree with this. In general I don't think EV's will become any more obsolete than they're equivalent size/price IC engine lineage though battery replacements are inevitable as a maintenance item. There are a lot of other things and features that people want as cars evolve, things that a car without is then perceived as old and becomes obsolete. Recent examples I'd say are key-less go/push button start, bluetooth connectivity, reverse cameras (now mandated), large center infotainment screens, Apple Carplay, driver assist features, LCD gauge clusters, etc. All of these types of things combined is what drives cars to become obsolete.

Also comparing value of all of one manufacturer's vehicles to a specific, high end model of another's (ie "Teslas versus Hellcats") is not a good indicator of the depreciation disparity (if in fact any exists) between current EV and IC engine vehicles.
Ppl r resistant to change until that change proves itself. Can u honestly say EV's have proved themselves at this point in time?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
Ppl r resistant to change until that change proves itself. Can u honestly say EV's have proved themselves at this point in time?
Fair question. Have they proved their long term reliability? Hard to say. The oldest examples we have for all electric vehicles are still only about 10 years old, but as the miles have piled on the early Model S/Chevy Volt cars have not made a bad reputation for themselves, particularly regarding requiring costly battery replacements to stay on the road. As they come out of battery warranty after a decade of use I don't see their values diminishing a whole lot more as they've already depreciated so much (just like every other 10 year old car). Also although the batteries may be deemed ready for replacement, they'll still have capacity to provide driving but with reduced range compared to new. As the total range has gone up over the years, the "old battery/reduced range" capacity is then also going up and may still be at an acceptable amount for a lot of people 10 years down the road.

Have they proved their consumer appeal to sell in large numbers? Ask Ford, GM, Nissan, Volkswagen (and Audi, Porsche). I suspect they'd say yes.

Can the current electrical grid handle everyone driving one? Not even close. The push for EV's is happening too fast and under too large of unnatural incentives (not truly market driven).
 

·
Premium Member
2022 Huracan EVO RWD (Ordered)
Joined
·
5,852 Posts
^^All interesting observations but especially insightful is "the push for EV's is happening too fast and under too large of unnatural incentives (not truly market driven)"; which is both disquieting, and unfortunately, true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
410 Posts
Can the current electrical grid handle everyone driving one? Not even close. The push for EV's is happening too fast and under too large of unnatural incentives (not truly market driven).
Ferrari is taking the rite steps, I hope Lambo does too.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top