Lamborghini Talk banner
301 - 320 of 354 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,825 Posts
Am I the only person who thinks $200k+ for these is completely insane?

Even $150+ plus is pushing it. Is anyone seriously buying these $200k+ examples? I dont think I've seen a single one sell.

I'm not sure how the price is justified aside from "well its rare". At $200k+ I think most people would either be looking at a manual f430 since most consider it a better drivers car, and from what I've read on this forum it seems like a lot of gallardo owners would prefer a manual murcielago, and $200k is right in clean title manual murcielago territory. You also have to consider that they're all LP cars, and I was under the impression people wanted the pre-LP models for the 5.0 engine PLUS you can find a pre-lp for $100k less.

I dont see the market on these matching what has happened with F430s. I say this as someone who has a manual gallardo. Read the comments for gallardos on BAT and you'll see that the lamborghini stereotype isnt entirely off the mark. I would argue that generally, driving enthusiasts gravitate to the f430 and the types who want to be more showy gravitate to the gallardo. I think that will keep values down as collectors will always prefer the f430. There are plenty of us who bought a gallardo for driving and not for seeking attention, but I dont think that is the majority.
Opinions vary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Yes of course they do, but the market speaks for its self. Have any of these 200k+ cars sold?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
I will say that finding a clean gallardo is almost impossible. Searching on autotrader and sorting price lowest -> highest doesnt give an accurate picture of the market because probably half of them are salvage title, crashed, or modified to death. I can see values going up higher than they are now just due to the rate these cars are ruined or put in a permanent home. I dont know what it is about gallardos and having salvage titles, but I swear I've never run into so many when searching for a car to buy. I wasnt aware people were willing to pay 200k for a 50th anniversary, however. You guys might know the market better than I do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,825 Posts
I will say that finding a clean gallardo is almost impossible. Searching on autotrader and sorting price lowest -> highest doesnt give an accurate picture of the market because probably half of them are salvage title, crashed, or modified to death. I can see values going up higher than they are now just due to the rate these cars are ruined or put in a permanent home. I dont know what it is about gallardos and having salvage titles, but I swear I've never run into so many when searching for a car to buy. I wasnt aware people were willing to pay 200k for a 50th anniversary, however. You guys might know the market better than I do.
Agree with you. There are many Frankenstein's out there which at the very least reduces collector value. Also most of the finer and rare examples have mostly found permanent homes and seldom come up for sale. Wasn't aware of the salvaged title issue. Interesting. The Anniversary Car's are not reaching their asking prices but are selling for above 200K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Am I the only person who thinks $200k+ for these is completely insane?

Even $150+ plus is pushing it. Is anyone seriously buying these $200k+ examples? I dont think I've seen a single one sell.

I'm not sure how the price is justified aside from "well its rare". At $200k+ I think most people would either be looking at a manual f430 since most consider it a better drivers car, and from what I've read on this forum it seems like a lot of gallardo owners would prefer a manual murcielago, and $200k is right in clean title manual murcielago territory. You also have to consider that they're all LP cars, and I was under the impression people wanted the pre-LP models for the 5.0 engine PLUS you can find a pre-lp for $100k less.

I dont see the market on these matching what has happened with F430s. I say this as someone who has a manual gallardo. Read the comments for gallardos on BAT and you'll see that the lamborghini stereotype isnt entirely off the mark. I would argue that generally, driving enthusiasts gravitate to the f430 and the types who want to be more showy gravitate to the gallardo. I think that will keep values down as collectors will always prefer the f430. There are plenty of us who bought a gallardo for driving and not for seeking attention, but I dont think that is the majority.
Have you driven one? I have owned multiple Ferraris and I now own a Superleggera manual. I can tell you that while the driving experience is very different, the Lamborghini is actually VERY much a drivers car. In fact, I would argue that many Ferrari's are set up to feel fast but as you push them, their at the limits handling are actually pretty squirrelly (referring to older cars that are manual; 355, 360, 430). The Gallardo with the NA 10 sounds amazing, has incredible torque, is high revving, and has the ultimate analog feel. The long throw on the throttle allows for pinpoint precision, the brake pedal requires significant pedal pressure which allows for ideal modulation, and while the steering is much heavier and slower ratio than than the Ferrari, it is very satisfying. The clutch and shifter are butter smooth as well. The throttle blip alone are worth the price of admission. Is it stunning to look at and does it attract a lot of attention? Sure, but that is not why these cars are so great.

Are people paying over 200k? The answer is, absolutely. I am one of those and I feel I got a bargain. I know of at least 3 others with a final sales price over 200k. I agree that rarety alone doesn't justify the value. It is rarity PLUS that specialness that you can't find elsewhere for anywhere close to that $ amount. I have looked at and driven Murcielagos. While the cool factor is high, the driveability is nowhere near the Gallardo. Also, the durability and cost to run a Gallardo is much less given the many Audi sourced parts. Every Murcielago I looked at leaked from SOMEWHERE. Diff, trans/gearbox, lift sytem, shocks, power steering etc... Repairs to these +/- a full engine out to fix those is eyewatering. My Gallardo is absolutely bone dry. No drips or leaks. Nothing. The car starts every time with no fuss, no rough running. It is reliable as a Honda (ok, maybe not but remember, I have only had the car 1 year;)). As for the pricing, you will find that Murcialagos in the low 200's with no stories are no longer available. A clean, no stories car that is not ridiculously high mileage is now 275-325k. This is the new norm. Witness:




Not bashing the Ferrari's but make no mistake, the LP manual Gallardo is a special car, a drivers car, and yes, actually worth the crazy high asking prices. As this becomes more widely know, there will come a time where you are kicking yourself saying, "damn I could have gotten one for ONLY 200+k."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
My experience is only with the pre-lp. My opinion comes from knowing what changed over the years and the opinion of others who have owned both. I'm not saying that the gallardo isnt a drivers car, I just personally believe the f430 is at least a better drivers car than the pre-lp. Perhaps the changes to the LP are more substantial than it seems from reading them off of a list.

My opinion is also based on what I think collectors prefer. I do believe that the majority of collectors, at least from BAT comments, tend to gravitate to other cars. If you read the BAT comments on any gallardo auction, they almost talk down about the car. I think the average enthusiast/collector views the f430 in a more positive light than the gallardo, thats not my opinion, just the opinion I'm getting from hearing people talk about them.

I agree with you on the murcielago, though. I bought the gallardo because I wanted a car I could use. The murcielago would have been just another pain in the ass to use. My cars already take up more mental space than garage space, so I went with the "practical" option. Like Tomaso said, opinions vary wildly on this stuff. Everybody says the countach is a pain to use, but Matt Farah maintains that everyone who dogs on the countach doesnt know what they're talking about
 
  • Like
Reactions: johnr265

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #308 ·
My car is for sale. Price is $129,995. Love the car and don't have to sell, thats why it was not really listed anywhere.
Driving it every week, currently has about 46,000 miles. Still located in Indiana.
Welcome back to the conversation, stoyan79. Good luck with the sale. For your reference, two F430 conversions have sold within the last year at about a $60K premium over the F1 transmission cars. No further explanations needed for your asking price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,825 Posts
My experience is only with the pre-lp. My opinion comes from knowing what changed over the years and the opinion of others who have owned both. I'm not saying that the gallardo isnt a drivers car, I just personally believe the f430 is at least a better drivers car than the pre-lp. Perhaps the changes to the LP are more substantial than it seems from reading them off of a list.

My opinion is also based on what I think collectors prefer. I do believe that the majority of collectors, at least from BAT comments, tend to gravitate to other cars. If you read the BAT comments on any gallardo auction, they almost talk down about the car. I think the average enthusiast/collector views the f430 in a more positive light than the gallardo, thats not my opinion, just the opinion I'm getting from hearing people talk about them.

I agree with you on the murcielago, though. I bought the gallardo because I wanted a car I could use. The murcielago would have been just another pain in the ass to use. My cars already take up more mental space than garage space, so I went with the "practical" option. Like Tomaso said, opinions vary wildly on this stuff. Everybody says the countach is a pain to use, but Matt Farah maintains that everyone who dogs on the countach doesnt know what they're talking about
The F430 steering is lighter light than the AWD Gallardo. The RWD Gallardo is much lighter than the AWD Gallardo and is pleasant and responsive. With RWD and a Gated Manual and you have a purists drivers car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #310 ·
Even $150+ plus is pushing it. Is anyone seriously buying these $200k+ examples? I dont think I've seen a single one sell.
No desire to engage in a diatribe on collectibility or comparisons vs a Ferrari F430. So these are just the facts:
In the past year, seven manual LPs have sold for over $200K with a high in excess of $230K. Five of those were Anniversary cars plus one LP570 Superleggera and one LP570 Performante Spyder.
In the past 7 months, 11 factory manual F430s have sold ranging from a low of $166K with minor accident damage to a high of $256K. F1 transmission F430s sell around $100K. Buyers are clearly willing to pay a significant premium for a manual car. Have no idea how many manual F430s were imported to the US but there are only 59 US-spec manual Gallardos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #311 ·
Welcome back to the conversation, stoyan79. Good luck with the sale. For your reference, two F430 conversions have sold within the last year at about a $60K premium over the F1 transmission cars. No further explanations needed for your asking price.
With stoyan79 actively listing his spyder again, we now have three LP manuals for sale:
13327: 2013 LP560-4 Giallo Midas coupe at Elite Autos for $230K; The ONLY confirmed Final Edition LP manual coupe in the US. Formerly owned by routt73.
13916: 2014 LP560-2 Anniversary at AJ's Garage for $270K; Currently owned by Sunir on this forum.
10352: 2011 LP560-4 Silver spyder conversion listed on this forum, on ebay and at CARS2YOU.COM for $129K; Owned by stoyan79 on this forum.as noted above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,825 Posts
No desire to engage in a diatribe on collectibility or comparisons vs a Ferrari F430. So these are just the facts:
In the past year, seven manual LPs have sold for over $200K with a high in excess of $230K. Five of those were Anniversary cars plus one LP570 Superleggera and one LP570 Performante Spyder.
In the past 7 months, 11 factory manual F430s have sold ranging from a low of $166K with minor accident damage to a high of $256K. F1 transmission F430s sell around $100K. Buyers are clearly willing to pay a significant premium for a manual car. Have no idea how many manual F430s were imported to the US but there are only 59 US-spec manual Gallardos.
Thank you for the reality check and information Oldschool. The facts are what they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #313 ·
Have no idea how many manual F430s were imported to the US but there are only 59 US-spec manual Gallardos.
Whoops! There are 59 US-spec factory manual LP Gallardos. Not sure how many pre-LP manuals are in the US but these are also selling at a premium. LamboGrasshopper on this forum was thinking about working on a registry for these cars but we haven't heard much from him lately. Hopefully he and some other pre-LP manual enthusiasts will make this a reality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Have no idea how many manual F430s were imported to the US but there are only 59 US-spec manual Gallardos.
According to Hagerty, "Over 15,000 F430s were produced, and it is suspected that only 10 percent of them have a traditional manual transmission" which would make about 1,500 manual F430s made. Assume about 1/3 came to the US, that makes there about 500 manual F430s in the US or roughly 10 times the number of LP manual Gallardos. A rare bird indeed!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,825 Posts
TLDR - Keep your manual LP cars.

The retail market for a manual LP is shallow while the experience of driving and owning a manual LP is awesome. I'd guess there are less than five real buyers, not retailers, willing to pay significant money for a manual LP car in the low to mid 200s, but from 150-190 you'd see double or triple the retail interest. Private party sale to one of us, your Bull buddies, is the best way out of the car in my opinion.

Why? Over in the trade/wholesale sector they will require a very wide margin but they will transact fast on a trade. The last two Lamborghinis I've traded-in both went on a merry-go-round from main dealers to wholesalers to enterprising others - and neither seem to have found a real "end customer" home in many many months. Retailing G's is a slow business and no one wants to make a mistake.
Shallow? Higher percentage of people looking for a manual compared to the manuals for sale than people looking for an e gear compared to e gear cars for sale.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
I've heard the same thing.

The people I've spoken to about it have mostly agreed that theres a lot less demand for the manual cars than you'd think. People list them for sale at a fair market value and wind up learning that few people want them. The ones that do are willing to pay the money, but its a small customer base. Something about the demographics for this car results in more people wanting an gear. I dont know what it is.

When I started the search I was thinking I was going to have to make outrageous cash offers and be outbidding people. A lot of the cars I made offers on many months ago are still sitting for sale. Even some of the cheaper cars sit. Theres a manual gallardo for $75k that has been on Ebay for months. Theres a yellow one in the 90s that has sat for a while too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,825 Posts
I've heard the same thing.

The people I've spoken to about it have mostly agreed that theres a lot less demand for the manual cars than you'd think. People list them for sale at a fair market value and wind up learning that few people want them. The ones that do are willing to pay the money, but its a small customer base. Something about the demographics for this car results in more people wanting an gear. I dont know what it is.

When I started the search I was thinking I was going to have to make outrageous cash offers and be outbidding people. A lot of the cars I made offers on many months ago are still sitting for sale. Even some of the cheaper cars sit. Theres a manual gallardo for $75k that has been on Ebay for months. Theres a yellow one in the 90s that has sat for a while too.
Sure seems there are more people wanting one than are available? Are there many listed right now for sale just sitting unsold? The only time one sits unsold for long is when the asking price is unrealistic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
Discussion Starter · #319 ·
Sure seems there are more people wanting one than are available? Are there many listed right now for sale just sitting unsold? The only time one sits unsold for long is when the asking price is unrealistic.
As noted in a previous post, here are the three LP manuals for sale:
13327: 2013 LP560-4 Giallo Midas coupe at Elite Autos for $230K; The ONLY confirmed Final Edition LP manual coupe in the US. Formerly owned by routt73.
13916: 2014 LP560-2 Anniversary at AJ's Garage for $270K; Currently owned by Sunir on this forum.
10352: 2011 LP560-4 Silver spyder conversion listed on this forum, on ebay and at CARS2YOU.COM for $129K; Owned by stoyan79 on this forum.as noted above.

13327 and 13916 have been on the market for months. 10352 has been for sale for a long time but has not been aggressively advertised. There's no typical length of time for these cars to be available. 13857 sat for a long time at a price below typical Anniversary sales while other Anniversary cars sold in days well above $200K. It's just business as usual in the exotic car market for relatively rare and expensive cars. A buyer decides that's the car they want and the deal is made. It can take days or even years for a particular car to sell. Regarding the three currently listed and assuming they all have no issues::
13327 is 1 of 1 in the US and the price is in line with previous sales for rare edition LP manuals. A collector will eventually decide this is the car they want.
13916 is on the high side for asking price but it is a very low mileage Anniversary car. This one may be on the market for awhile.
10352 is a relative bargain for someone looking for a solid manual G to drive and enjoy. F430 conversions are selling at a $60K premium over F1 transmission cars.

That's the current state of the LP manual market. There are more pre-LP manuals available at various price points but they should not be included in any pricing analysis with LP manuals. This thread was initiated to track the LP manual market. Let's please keep it focused on those cars. The pre-LP, Ferrari and even some Porsche manuals are also bringing a premium but let's put the discussion of the general manual exotic market into another thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Nobody even mentioned the pre-LP. Saying "manual cars sit for a while" is a truth of the market regardless of generation. I think you're starting to take this a bit too seriously.
 
301 - 320 of 354 Posts
Top