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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So let me try to stave off any comments about a special cream you heard about, or staying away from certain establishments. 馃憠 @AngelOfMurci

I'm considering ordering a 2021 ZL1 Camaro. $75k with all the bells and whistles. I test drove one a few weeks back, which they believe is the last new one currently for sale in the Country, but they want $4k over sticker, it already has 400 miles, it's white, yada yada.

At any rate, "Wow!" is that thing fun to drive. Watching the sales guy squirm, searching for an oh **** handle while climbing on the imaginary brake, made me reminisce of drivers ed in high school.

Before I put down the deposit and start the waiting process, which they have no clue on expected delivery. What alternatives do you suggest I investigate? If you've driven several of them, even better.

Unfortunately there is nothing available to test drive, so this decision will likely have to be made without actually experiencing them.

The usual suspects are:

1) Hellcat Widebody Challenger. Redeye is not available in Manual transmission. But the "normal" hellcat still has 717 horses. Reviews say that it feels large, doesn't want to take corners and the ZL1 will eat its lunch. Not spending a lot of time at the track or dragstrip, but want something engaging. 0-60 published time is 3.6, versus the ZL1 3.9. Same price point, $72k with an undetermined wait time.

2) 2020 GT350R. Not made for 2021. GT500 doesn't come in manual. GT350R 3.9 sec 0-60 is surprising considering it has 125 less HP and over 200 lb-ft less torque than the ZL1. There is a nice example for sale nearby, but at $100k. Not sure this warrants a 33% premium over the ZL1, but if anyone has experience that says it does, would like to hear your opinion.

3) 2017 ACR Viper. Priced way out of the budget for this toy at $200k for a nice example. Any of the three above will come with a nice warranty.

I'm not worried at all about depreciation or resale. It will be what it will be. I've thought hard about a stick diablo, and though I like to tinker, I am not handy and would hate to keep taking the Diablo into the dealer, which I don't have a lot of confidence in to begin with, not to mention a reasonable example is likely pushing $300k in this market.

While appearance is subjective. I like the Challenger the best, but am fine with the looks of any of the models mentioned above.

Sound is important, and funness. Would like to keep this toy below $150 k.

Your thoughts are appreciated....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I want to drive this to the office. Yes, less than $150k would be a nice place to be. Definitely keeping the SVJ for "the long haul". This serves a different function.
 

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I want to drive this to the office. Yes, less than $150k would be a nice place to be. Definitely keeping the SVJ for "the long haul". This serves a different function.
Would you consider the new Porsche GT4? Decent sound with the flat six engine and handles well.
 

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I want to drive this to the office. Yes, less than $150k would be a nice place to be. Definitely keeping the SVJ for "the long haul". This serves a different function.
I鈥檒l sell you my 2022 Lamborghini Relampago for $15K

it does 0-60 in 3.2 days, as it still has the original 318 engine

295675
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
2022 Lamborghini Relampago
I do love that beast. Couldn't fit that into my garage, among other problems...

I don't know what it is between me and Porsche, but I've never been able to give them a fair shake. I suspect I never will. Amazing German engineering I have heard and believe, but by the time I'm getting into something exciting with them, we're talking Lambo money, and the Bull wins any day of the week. I've never even sat in a Porsche, and for some reason just the thought of doing so makes me sad.
 

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I do love that beast. Couldn't fit that into my garage, among other problems...

I don't know what it is between me and Porsche, but I've never been able to give them a fair shake. I suspect I never will. Amazing German engineering I have heard and believe, but by the time I'm getting into something exciting with them, we're talking Lambo money, and the Bull wins any day of the week. I've never even sat in a Porsche, and for some reason just the thought of doing so makes me sad.
Ironically I have the exact same feelings about Porsches. I think it stems from the drab colors they had when I was a kid. Also, as a kid it reminded me of the VW Bug. Boring aesthetics. That said I just saw a 911 Carrera in lemon yellow on a Mecum auction, which is slowly changing my mind about Porsches. Also, production numbers are higher, making them less noticeable than a lambo.
 

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It all depends on what you are looking for. Fun price/category to be shopping. I drove the ZL1 and liked it, but what I didn't like was how hard it was to keep the power to the road. It had gobs of power, but the tires wanted to break loose with almost no effort. I'm all for stepping the tail out, but I want to be the one to make this happen.

If I were in the market for another manual car for fun under $150K, I'd be looking heavily at:

  • Porsche GTS
  • Porsche Cayman GTS or GT4
  • Porsche GT3
  • Lotus Elise (Supercharged) - well under budget, but I'd want a lot of power for that "go-cart" feel

It is super hard to beat Porsche's manual gearbox (with newer models having rev-matching, etc).

Again, all depends on what you want. If you want the muscle car that will step out on you unannounced, the viper, ZL1 and other cars you mentioned should fit the bill. I like a RWD car that can step out when asked, I just prefer to be more in control.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for those ideas. Didn't even consider the BMW, but a worthwhile thought. I did look at Lotus Evora GT. The Black/Red in Indianapolis sold. My recollection is they did drive go-carty, in almost a "too carty" way.

Porsche would take some brain reprogramming for me, so perhaps in a couple of years.

Still leaning toward the ZL1, though the Hellcat close second. The Mustang is interesting as the only naturally aspirated option, but probably not worth the premium for my daily purpose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Definitely considered a 2019 ZR1, but those appreciated too high. You might be on to something.
 

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Thanks for those ideas. Didn't even consider the BMW, but a worthwhile thought. I did look at Lotus Evora GT. The Black/Red in Indianapolis sold. My recollection is they did drive go-carty, in almost a "too carty" way.

Porsche would take some brain reprogramming for me, so perhaps in a couple of years.

Still leaning toward the ZL1, though the Hellcat close second. The Mustang is interesting as the only naturally aspirated option, but probably not worth the premium for my daily purpose.

Cool stuff!

I'd also have a supercharged M3 (going back a few years when they were naturally aspirated V8's. Tons of power after supercharging and a lot of fun.

If you get the ZL1, just make sure you warm up the tires pretty good before getting into it :)
 

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Had a 12 zl1...
Had a 2019corvette GS they get old quick...
Just buy yourself a honda accord sport very fun car ..i have 2016...6speed .
Not much money and actually rare.
Winding out a 4 cylinder ...actually fun.
Or how about a older mini cooper.
 

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Had a 12 zl1...
Had a 2019corvette GS they get old quick...
Just buy yourself a honda accord sport very fun car ..i have 2016...6speed .
Not much money and actually rare.
Winding out a 4 cylinder ...actually fun.
Or how about a older mini cooper.
Actually, a manual Mini JCW is quite a fun car... Especially when equipped with the JCW tuning kit and sport exhaust.
 

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The Mini's are tons of fun. I actually think the older Z28 Camaro is worth a look, its hysterical to drive (along with GT350) and has tons of character with the NA LS7 motor. A Gen IV Viper ACR is also a great car (and a complete handful) since its pre driver-aids. Early Porsche GT3's (996/997) are still attainable and ooze character.
 

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My beach car is a 2019 Mini Countryman S with surf racks.

Super fun to drive and a nice alternative after driving the Huracan 3+ days in a row.
 
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