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Discussion Starter #1
I have the pre-lp and lp560 workshop manuals. I have the R8 v8 and v10 workshop manuals. Both of them go over the transmission and normal servicing. None of them go over what unit-specific tools may be needed to rebuild it or the important, technical details that vary from transmission to transmission.

It is a graziano L140. There is nothing from Graziano that I can find. They have some partnership with Dana, and there is nothing from Dana either. SL-C kit cars use the Graziano and have some documentation, but not anything relating to the internals of the transmission or the rebuilding process.

Surely there is some kind of literature for this. It must exist. Has anyone here already figured this out?

While were here, if anybody needs the gallardo or r8 workshop manuals, I'd be more than happy to share them.
 

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when I was looking into it i found an Audi document, "D3E800A4767-R_tronic_Transmission" I haven't been through it yet but I think it would be the same as the Gallardo?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
when I was looking into it i found an Audi document, "D3E800A4767-R_tronic_Transmission" I haven't been through it yet but I think it would be the same as the Gallardo?
Yes! I only had the regular workshop manual. Googled that and found it right away. Exactly what I needed
 

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If you need to know anything about that trans, you can reach out to John as HCF autosports. They are the US distributor for graziano and know more about them than anyone. They can also sell you the parts.

They rebuilt my R8 trans that had a bad clutch fork. Audi wanted 11 or 12. I pulled the trans myself and sent to them. They shipped back to my door in less than 2 weeks for less than 3k. The cost of the parts alone for the synchro and fork and various stuff required for rebuild was 2k+ so it was a no-brainer.


Guess I am just a yuppie that would not know what end of a wrench to use ;)

 

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Discussion Starter #5
I plan to order parts from HCF or possibly Dallas Performance. I dont think sending it off makes sense considering once the trans is removed the majority of the work is already done. Maybe if you dont already own the required tools for rebuilding a trans it could make more financial sense, I suppose. I'm doing it myself since it will be faster, but also because it gives me an opportunity to inspect the car and see how everything is holding together. I'm probably going to do a lot more than one synchro, too. Thinking about changing the gear ratio to that of the 2006+ or maybe a custom ratio to make street driving a bit more exciting.

You and I both know the yuppie comment was intentionally presented as a generalization, and I dont think its inaccurate. The majority of people who buy exotic cars arent the sort who want to get their hands dirty, and most of them dont know the first thing about working on cars. Thats fine up until they start giving advice and arguing about things they dont know about, though. I really dont think that comment should be that controversial. Nobody called you a yuppie.
 

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I never stereotype in such a broad fashion. I think this group is pretty diverse and would never make assumptions what people know and dont know. Given that most here have probably have achieved some level of success, my guess is that correlates with above average intelligence.

Just like what you might have assumed about me. Cars are pretty simple. This was an example of one of my prior projects. (And I did not just turn the wrenches, I also flew it) I also am a commercially rated pilot and certified instructor (not what I do for a living, but just for fun). You probably would not have guessed that either.

Sure wish someday I can figure out how to operate an accelerator pedal :).....







 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
If you separate an audience of car owners into two groups, those who actively participate on forums and those who dont, the ones who actively participate are probably more likely to know a thing or two. Nobody is denying that there are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum. I dont think intelligence has anything to do with understanding cars or being able to repair them. The smartest guy in the world might not know how to change an air filter, but thats not because he cant figure it out, its because hes never had to do it or learn about it. I think you're taking offense to a comment where there was no offense meant. I messaged you because I was prepared to spend my time writing out an explanation of the throttle system. I wasnt trying to be condescending toward you or imply anything negative about you. I only asked if you cared to hear it because I wasnt going to spend my time typing out something nobody cared to read. Anyway, once again, lets not derail a thread. This forum has a messaging system for a reason.
 

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If you separate an audience of car owners into two groups, those who actively participate on forums and those who dont, the ones who actively participate are probably more likely to know a thing or two. Nobody is denying that there are plenty of knowledgeable people on this forum. I dont think intelligence has anything to do with knowing understanding cars or being able to repair them. The smartest guy in the world might not know how to change an air filter, but thats not because he cant figure it out, its because hes never had to learn. I think you're taking offense to a comment where there was no offense meant. I messaged you because I was prepared to spend my time writing out an explanation of the throttle system. I wasnt trying to be condescending toward you or imply anything negative about you.
No worries man. Was just trying to illustrate that when you make assumptions about people, you might be wrong. Also, got my Huracan delivered today and already have the sprint booster to put in it.

Peace! Careful on pulling the trans. All kinds of wires to disconnect. I missed one thing. There is flywheel sensor on the drivers side I didnt see (it is right on the lower bellhousing). I boogered it up sliding the trans off and had to order a new one. It is only held on with a torx bolt. Dont forget to pull it before you go to try to pull the trans off so you dont mess it up like I did!
 

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So the Graziano L140 is whats on the Pre LP ?, I've seen a Pre-LP Engine rebuild workshop but not the transmission.
btw nice bird, do you fly it ?
 

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So the Graziano L140 is whats on the Pre LP ?, I've seen a Pre-LP Engine rebuild workshop but not the transmission.
btw nice bird, do you fly it ?

All the same trans. Different shifting mech between pre-lp and lp. Lp, got the same one as the R8.

Yep, that was my ship. I have owned 3 helicopters. It was my 'thing' before the cars. It was always a dream of mine when I was younger. I got to pursue it in my late 20's. My business supported me pursuing it. I went on to hold a commercial and instructor rating. Been coast to coast and all over. My other business supported owning a helo.

I changed focus in 09. Greatly simplified life moving on from the dip. Only downside was I was too young to appreciate all the cool stuff back then. It was always the chase.

Cant justify owning a personal helo anymore. The costs are a totally different level. Helicopters are the most fun thing, but enjoying cars allows me more time for family.

Attached a fun little vid from 'back in the day'. I took my buddy and his son to a 'fly-in'. Im the guy on the right. (the 11 year younger versions of myself ;) )

STILL wish I could figure out how to operate a accelerator pedal as @GoatPuncher suggested ;)












 

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Discussion Starter #11
I've considered getting licensed and buying a helicopter. Just dont feel great about the higher failure rate compared to private planes. That, and I wouldnt feel complete without having a helipad in my yard, which unfortunately I cannot fit anywhere. Do you really own a helicopter if you arent parking it in your own yard? I dont think so.
 

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I've considered getting licensed and buying a helicopter. Just dont feel great about the higher failure rate compared to private planes. That, and I wouldnt feel complete without having a helipad in my yard, which unfortunately I cannot fit anywhere. Do you really own a helicopter if you arent parking it in your own yard? I dont think so.

Helos are expensive. For a given capacity, they are on order twice as expensive per hour of flight. The cost of life limited parts and direct costs are significantly more expensive vs fixed wing.

If you are a little guy, you can do your training in a small 2-seat R22. Those are only about 300/hr. Smaller guy being about 180lbs. If you are a bigger dude, you really want to do it in a R44. That is about $600/hr. By the regs you can do your rating in 40 hour min, but no one is ready and able to pass at that point. Most guys need 60+ hours before they are ready to pass private.

So MIN 20k in a small ship to 36k in a R44. If you want your commercial rating, that is 200 hrs. So figure 150k.

For ships you can buy a 2 seat small r22 which I have owned 2. Great ship, but limited capacity. You can buy a decent one used for 250ish with good time left. A better ship is a R44 (4 seater). For a nice one with decent time, you are looking 450ish. (new they are mid 6's).

If will cost you about 250/hour to fly it. Not including insurance and hanger fees.

If you want to go turbine, things get a lot more expensive...but lots more fun. I had a hughes 500. It burned about $125/hour in fuel and I figured my hourly operation costs were about $350/hour. Maint was about 15k/year if nothing was wrong. One bad start, and you can do 80k in damage to a engine on start up. (say not using the accelerator pedal correctly ;) ) You have to be very careful to introduce fuel properly on start up or you get what is called a 'hot start' and will require a full tear down of the engine.

If you have the money, I think helos are the best thing you can ever do. They do have higher accident rates, but it is mostly because people can do things with them you would never consider with a fixed wing. The vast majority of accidents are pilot error.

If you own a business were you can justify owning one, then that is do-able. But just owning a private helo, even a small one, figure the rating and the ship will cost you $500,000 in the first couple years and then a decade of flying will probably set you back well over $1,000,000.

I used to land in my yard all the time. Sometime more than one ship! Some old pics.



 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thats very interesting. Your house is similar to mine. An acre or two of land and zero neighbors. I figured you needed a ton of space on every side in order to safely land near a house. Maybe I'll have to look into it again. I've read a few things that indicated that dollar for dollar, your money will buy you a helicopter that is safer than the equivalent private plane. Pretty much everybody I know of with a private plane has one from the 60s with carbs, and of course the big issue with that is carbs icing over or otherwise failing. That seems to be very common. I also have to consider that a lot of very competent pilots have a crash on their record. Everybody thinks to themselves "Well I'm not reckless at all, I'll be safe! I'll pay even more attention than they did!" but in reality I'm not sure how that holds up. Its one of those things thats easy to tell yourself in your head, but in reality you either wind up being an average pilot, or wind up being a very good one but getting too comfortable just like everyone else who has run into trouble. Just trying to think of all the possibilities. I dropped the plans once I started getting more into the failure rates and safety aspects of it, but its always in the back of my mind.


One bad start, and you can do 80k in damage to a engine on start up. (say not using the accelerator pedal correctly ;) )
Dont let Jason hear. There will be a HeliBooster or something on helicopter forums in the next week
 

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Thats very interesting. Your house is similar to mine. An acre or two of land and zero neighbors. I figured you needed a ton of space on every side in order to safely land near a house. Maybe I'll have to look into it again. I've read a few things that indicated that dollar for dollar, your money will buy you a helicopter that is safer than the equivalent private plane. Pretty much everybody I know of with a private plane has one from the 60s with carbs, and of course the big issue with that is carbs icing over or otherwise failing. That seems to be very common. I also have to consider that a lot of very competent pilots have a crash on their record. Everybody thinks to themselves "Well I'm not reckless at all, I'll be safe! I'll pay even more attention than they did!" but in reality I'm not sure how that holds up. I dropped the plans once I started getting more into the failure rates and safety aspects of it, but its always in the back of my mind.
That is my old home. I built it in 2001. Live in different home now. On 3 ac here, but laid out differently.

What you have read is TOTALLY incorrect or told to you by people who dont know what they are talking about. Helos are MINIMUM twice as expensive. Often 3-4 times. EG you can buy a nice 4-seat fixed wing for 150. MINIMUM helo will be 300k which is a mid to high time R44.

Take a 6 person airplane. You can buy a very nice Cherokee 6 for 200's. To get a 6 person helo, you are looking at a A-Star which is for an old run out one will be 750k. Or you could opt for a newer EC135. About 6mil nicely equipped. Yearly operating budget estimated at about 700k. It costs about 1600/ hour to fly it.

Yea man....helos are WAY different price point than fixed wings. You can believe what you want, but I have quite a bit of experience in this area.
 

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I have the pre-lp and lp560 workshop manuals. I have the R8 v8 and v10 workshop manuals. Both of them go over the transmission and normal servicing. None of them go over what unit-specific tools may be needed to rebuild it or the important, technical details that vary from transmission to transmission.
I know you said workshop manuals, not sure if that is the ELSAwin program. But gearbox disassembly & reassembly is explained, including needed specialty tools. I have attached the main portion of it. In reference to technical details across L140 versions there isn't much out there, nor parts availability.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah, I found that part in the R8 manual someone sent above. I think that should be all I need. Looks like a relatively simple transmission to work on. Requiring no specialty tools is strange. Almost suspiciously easy.
 

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I know you said workshop manuals, not sure if that is the ELSAwin program. But gearbox disassembly & reassembly is explained, including needed specialty tools. I have attached the main portion of it. In reference to technical details across L140 versions there isn't much out there, nor parts availability.
Thank you for sharing.
Alex.
 

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If you need to know anything about that trans, you can reach out to John as HCF autosports. They are the US distributor for graziano and know more about them than anyone. They can also sell you the parts.

They rebuilt my R8 trans that had a bad clutch fork. Audi wanted 11 or 12. I pulled the trans myself and sent to them. They shipped back to my door in less than 2 weeks for less than 3k. The cost of the parts alone for the synchro and fork and various stuff required for rebuild was 2k+ so it was a no-brainer.


Guess I am just a yuppie that would not know what end of a wrench to use ;)


Appreciate the info on HCF

and props for turning a wrench yourself! I "get" it

Love the black Helo.. Man.. you have done it all

Way Cool!
 
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