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@REKIII, I understand your point of view, and I know you know this but for the benefit of our forum members...............If we each make a choice and that choice only affects us then that is reasonable but if our choice potentially can adversely affect other people as well as our loved ones then it is a different matter entirely. Thus, we each have to wrestle with this dilemma and do what makes the most sense to us based upon our values and past experiences. Weighing all the pros and cons I have decided that vaccinating is the only way to fly........no pun intended. ;)
“ ..If we each make a choice and that choice only affects us then that is reasonable but if our choice potentially can adversely affect other people as well as our loved ones then it is a different matter entirely”

BINGO! So as I have stated umpteen times before, why doesn’t the CDC and big government outlaw and prohibit alcohol and tobacco? Those items kill magnitudes more people than covid…. and yes, those items kill the innocent… drunk drivers, 81% of domestic violence is associated with alcohol abuse, second hand smoke, ICUs and hospitals filled with cancer patients. The list goes on.

But does big government really care about saving lives? Or do they only care about controlling people? Early in the pandemic, liquor and smoke shops stayed open. What a way to save lives eh?

Look at their actions… allowing children to vape, legalizing pot, another carcinogenic inhalant.

The hypocrisy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #322 ·
:giggle: @AngelOfMurci, I guess your are just venting but it reminds me of the dialogue from the movie The Untouchables........

Albert: what are you prepared to do?
Angel: ??
Albert: And then what are you prepared to do?
 

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There are plenty of outlier stories on both sides. I know of a local orthopedic surgeon who was paralyzed from the neck down after his first shot and is going through rehab to function....not sure if if he will ever perform surgeries again. There is also a well known restaurateur who was active in the community who died from covid. Both of these are horrible, but neither have any impact on my decision for me. I look at the numbers, the odds.
And try to avoid using the virtuous card (I know the sentiment behind it is nothing but good). If you get the vaccine, you can still get covid, and transmit covid. If you want to get the vaccine for you, then great, I FULLY support that decision. If you get it because someone you know died, or you want to protect others, then I can't help but laugh at your reasoning. I realize this is cold and heartless, but it is the fact of humanity. We love to help each other, I'm sure many, if not all, of us here donate time, material, money to a variety of causes, it all makes a difference. Getting or not getting the vaccine does absolutely nothing for your fellow man.
And one last little tidbit to noodle on. A lot of pro-vax people are disgusted by us who won't/don't get it, they feel 'We are the cause' of delta variant, blah blah blah. IF somehow 100% of the earths population was vaccinated tomorrow, there would still be variants, and people would still be contracting and dying from Covid. Covid can be spread and carried by animals, therefore we will never eliminate it. This isn't like Chicken pox, or polio or small pox. This is like the flu. Never going away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #324 ·
Try it you’ll like it or....................not. Booster, here we come! ;)
 
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I have a few friends that got COVID last year, unvaccinated. They were bragging about how they got it and survived it and never got vaccinated. So far 2 of the 3 are finding they are suffering from damaged lung tissue and other breathing issues. So having natural antibodies by simply allowing yourself to get the virus is not the best approach. I’m sure we will see more of these after effects going forward.
 

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I have a few friends that got COVID last year, unvaccinated. They were bragging about how they got it and survived it and never got vaccinated. So far 2 of the 3 are finding they are suffering from damaged lung tissue and other breathing issues. So having natural antibodies by simply allowing yourself to get the virus is not the best approach. I’m sure we will see more of these after effects going forward.
No one is advocating to get natural immunity.
I’m for allowing people that have natural immunity to skip having to take the vaccine. I’m for allowing people that have natural immunity to walk this planet with free will and mind. I’m for allowing people that have natural immunity to have employment without forced vaccinations. I’m for allowing people that have natural immunity to have access to government facilities that his tax dollars paid for.

My stance ironically is 100% diametrically opposite of the stance the ACLU is now touting.

Screw the ACLU
 

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After all is said and done, I believe in free will and the right to choose for yourself. The best we can do is what feels right to you. I wish I could go ahead in time and see how all this played our 5 or 10 years from now.
 

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After all is said and done, I believe in free will and the right to choose for yourself. The best we can do is what feels right to you. I wish I could go ahead in time and see how all this played our 5 or 10 years from now.
I also believe it should be up to each individual but I don't like that those who choose not to be vaccinated all of a sudden want someone to help them when they get sick. And again, this is coming from someone who just lost a family member because she was unvaccinated. I was sad for her but at the same time furious at her for putting herself in that position and taking up an ICU bed.
 

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After all is said and done, I believe in free will and the right to choose for yourself. The best we can do is what feels right to you. I wish I could go ahead in time and see how all this played our 5 or 10 years from now.
In the 20 months of the pandemic, the US has seen a total of 214 kids, 17 years of age or younger die WITH covid. The CDC and local health officials refuse to divulge the medical conditions of those 214 children. More children die from the flu on an annual basis than from covid. Granted, no one died from the flu last year. What the heck.

FYI, my sources indicate that no healthy children have died from covid.

Yes, it will be interesting to look into the future. One things for sure… our civil liberties will have been reduced to inmates… and slaves to unelected officials.

Good luck to all of us.
 

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I also believe it should be up to each individual but I don't like that those who choose not to be vaccinated all of a sudden want someone to help them when they get sick. And again, this is coming from someone who just lost a family member because she was unvaccinated. I was sad for her but at the same time furious at her for putting herself in that position and taking up an ICU bed.
Do you have the same sentiment when gang bangers get treated in ER and take an ICU bed? What about drunk drivers running their car up a light pole? Should they get treated? And all those cancer treatments and surgeries from smoking tobacco? Or LGBTQ getting treated for AIDS? Should we deny all of them an ICU bed? Note: all of those people have self inflicted wounds. The medical oath says we treat everyone. Then again, maybe a medical oath is something wokesters just ignore nowadays, since their only goal is to call all the shots. Ignore the constitution. As long as everyone is doing it, we’re cool.
 

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I also believe it should be up to each individual but I don't like that those who choose not to be vaccinated all of a sudden want someone to help them when they get sick. And again, this is coming from someone who just lost a family member because she was unvaccinated. I was sad for her but at the same time furious at her for putting herself in that position and taking up an ICU bed.
I know someone who recently died from the vaccine. I guess it's his fault for taking it.
 

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I know someone who recently died from the vaccine. I guess it's his fault for taking it.
The US VAERS system shows that about 6-8 thousand people have died within a few days of getting the vaccine. Maybe that many deaths is a normal death rate? Happenstance? I’m not too sure. That said, the vaccine will prevent the majority of deaths if you do get covid. It won’t prevent you from getting or spreading covid.

Anyone contemplating getting the vaccine… are you healthy? Get it. Are you over 50 and healthy? Get it. If you are overweight, have diabetes, have health issues? CONSULT your physician!!!!!!! Already have got covid? Get tested for antibodies. If you have antibodies skip the vaccine for a later date. If your levels of antibodies are low, get the vaccine.
 

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Remember one thing they are dividing people .
And remember thie Flu kills also but never mandated.
All citizens of the world need to ask questions of our politicians.
And we should question why they are suppressing theraputics.
Boys and girls stay safe and may God help from the Evil surrounding the world.
And you see how even niki minaj was thrown in twitter jail.
Just some thoughts .
 

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Do you have the same sentiment when gang bangers get treated in ER and take an ICU bed? What about drunk drivers running their car up a light pole? Should they get treated? And all those cancer treatments and surgeries from smoking tobacco? Or LGBTQ getting treated for AIDS? Should we deny all of them an ICU bed? Note: all of those people have self inflicted wounds. The medical oath says we treat everyone. Then again, maybe a medical oath is something wokesters just ignore nowadays, since their only goal is to call all the shots. Ignore the constitution. As long as everyone is doing it, we’re cool.
Dear Angel, Funny how some of those who have taken the medical oath have boycotted due to the aforementioned being an issue. To answer your questions…I have no problem with them being moved down the treatment totem pole behind others who are not doing things that are construed as self-inflicted. No problem at all.
 

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The US VAERS system shows that about 6-8 thousand people have died within a few days of getting the vaccine. Maybe that many deaths is a normal death rate? Happenstance? I’m not too sure. That said, the vaccine will prevent the majority of deaths if you do get covid. It won’t prevent you from getting or spreading covid.

Anyone contemplating getting the vaccine… are you healthy? Get it. Are you over 50 and healthy? Get it. If you are overweight, have diabetes, have health issues? CONSULT your physician!!!!!!! Already have got covid? Get tested for antibodies. If you have antibodies skip the vaccine for a later date. If your levels of antibodies are low, get the vaccine.
Completely agree, some can’t get it for health reasons and therefore should not. And if I had the antibodies I may have waited as well. For those who are healthy enough to obtain there are consequences no matter which direction you take. Nobody can have their cake and eat it too when it comes to this pandemic.
 

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Do you have the same sentiment when gang bangers get treated in ER and take an ICU bed? What about drunk drivers running their car up a light pole? Should they get treated? And all those cancer treatments and surgeries from smoking tobacco? Or LGBTQ getting treated for AIDS? Should we deny all of them an ICU bed? Note: all of those people have self inflicted wounds. The medical oath says we treat everyone. Then again, maybe a medical oath is something wokesters just ignore nowadays, since their only goal is to call all the shots. Ignore the constitution. As long as everyone is doing it, we’re cool.
Guess you think this kind of news that’s in my paper today is just par for the course and no big deal.
Newspaper Publication Font Material property News
 

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This has turned out to be a most interesting thread. So many different opinions, all of which to me have merit.The funny thing is the more I learn, the more confused I get.
 

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Discussion Starter · #338 ·
Do you have the same sentiment when gang bangers get treated in ER and take an ICU bed? What about drunk drivers running their car up a light pole? Should they get treated? And all those cancer treatments and surgeries from smoking tobacco? Or LGBTQ getting treated for AIDS? Should we deny all of them an ICU bed? Note: all of those people have self inflicted wounds. The medical oath says we treat everyone. Then again, maybe a medical oath is something wokesters just ignore nowadays, since their only goal is to call all the shots. Ignore the constitution. As long as everyone is doing it, we’re cool.
I completely agree, people need to take personal responsibility, and not cast their self inflicted pain and suffering on the world but, as we all know, people rarely, if ever, do. They smoke, do drugs, binge drink or drink excessively, are grossly overweight, don't exercise and then they show up to treatment facilities and want a magic pill.
Though, alas, healthcare providers are compelled to do, what they can do, and they do it, for the most part, selflessly............as it should be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #339 · (Edited)
The funny thing is the more I learn, the more confused I get.
As you know better than I, certainty is unattainable so you make the best decision you can with the facts at hand. In that light, I have concluded, and still firmly believe, vaccinating is the best option or at least the lesser of two evils.
 

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Guess you think this kind of news that’s in my paper today is just par for the course and no big deal. View attachment 300403
Casa not here to shed a negative light are argue with no one but remember what is going on in israel
many vaxed people have gotten sick and are taken up beds in the hospitals and maybe something like this happened in alabama or maybe many healthcare workers have quit because of the mandatory shot.
I know a few health care workers that won’t take shot but hospital won’t fire them because they need workers.
 
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