Phantom vs Maybach
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I think the RR is the most stately looking luxury sedan in at least 30 years. It blows away the Chrysler-looking Maybach in appearance. But on the other hand they don't compare performance-wise. The Maybach has exceptional power and brakes that stop almost like a Modena. I think I'd go for the Mercedes S65 instead. I'ts not launched yet, but it will be out soon. Expect to pay about $180,000 plus $50,000 dealer markup for an S65. I drove the SL65 (same powerplant) and it's outrageous...but out of the hole it could be better (a bit squirrely, no traction...now I know why Lambo went the VT route in the mid-90s). But given a choice between the Maybach and RR, I'd go with a black RR. Both will take a beating in depreciation though. The RR has a nice cabin (of course) but I prefer the Maybach interior, especially the 62's back seat with the trick roof. $4,000 for cloth side curtains is a bit silly though.
on the RR front, why do you want the car needs o be the real question, if it's only to pick up chicks then a 80's RR will get ou everywhere you want & need to go. If it's true performance you want I tend to agree the MB's are getting damn hard to beat when you factor in cost per burnout 
.
.The Maybach is not a proper car - it's for sitting in the back of only when you get picked up from the airport.
Is the new RR really a BMW (are Lamborghini really Audi's?!), it's clearly not a drivers car. It's like driving Buckingham Palace around - very beautiful but huge and impractical.
Stick with Lamborghini!
Is the new RR really a BMW (are Lamborghini really Audi's?!), it's clearly not a drivers car. It's like driving Buckingham Palace around - very beautiful but huge and impractical.
Stick with Lamborghini!
The RR is FABULOUS.
They used to say that RR's were the best cars in the world. Let's not get too bogged down in what that actually means but I can sort of see it being applied to the Phantom.
A proper classic old-school car to be driven in (rather than drive). The Maybach just comes across as a little "vulgar" in comparison which is odd because RR are as crass as they come... just something STATELY about the new Phantom which works so well.
(plus Maybachs are all over Monaco (should it matter ))
They used to say that RR's were the best cars in the world. Let's not get too bogged down in what that actually means but I can sort of see it being applied to the Phantom.
A proper classic old-school car to be driven in (rather than drive). The Maybach just comes across as a little "vulgar" in comparison which is odd because RR are as crass as they come... just something STATELY about the new Phantom which works so well.
(plus Maybachs are all over Monaco (should it matter
))
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124 Posts
I have been looking closely at these 2 cars. The Bentley is just too small for me and was not being considered. I found The Phantom difficult to get in and out of. You had to slide forwards in your seat to get out of the back. the front is very sterile, maybe good for the hired driver but not for me. The steering wheel was awkward.
The V 16 rag top version (concept car) we saw at Pebble Beach (but could not test drive) was a different story. I would buy one of those.
I drove the Maybach on the track at Sebring. I can tell you both the 57 and 62 are the most balanced cars I have driven. No understeer or oversteer in either car running at the edge. My only complaint was the body roll. They are now building a 57 for me with a much larger and stiffer anti-roll bar system. I should get it in December. Renntech who works with MB and AMG is going to get me another 120 - 150 ft.lbs of torque.
I can not wait.
aehaas
The V 16 rag top version (concept car) we saw at Pebble Beach (but could not test drive) was a different story. I would buy one of those.
I drove the Maybach on the track at Sebring. I can tell you both the 57 and 62 are the most balanced cars I have driven. No understeer or oversteer in either car running at the edge. My only complaint was the body roll. They are now building a 57 for me with a much larger and stiffer anti-roll bar system. I should get it in December. Renntech who works with MB and AMG is going to get me another 120 - 150 ft.lbs of torque.
I can not wait.
aehaas
AE, MB has the "magetic Liquid" shocks...amazing stuff !!!! These others NEED tis type suspenion badly!
On to the latest release:
Driving The New Bentley Continental GT
Dan Lienert
Plenty of guys get in their cars and fantasize about being James Bond, but few can claim to own his car. A new way to do so, however, has just opened up.
Click here for the slide show.
With its new, $150,000 Continental GT coupe, Volkswagen's Bentley subsidiary has revitalized a nameplate once favored by the secret agent in Ian Fleming's novels. (The Bond of the movies is more closely associated with Aston Martins.) Over the years, Bond was said to have owned three Bentleys. His first was a 1930 4.5-liter with an Amherst Villiers supercharger, introduced in the first Bond book, Casino Royale. His second, from Bond's third appearance in Moonraker, published in 1955, was a retuned 1953 Mark VI. The last, introduced in 1963's On Her Majesty's Secret Service, was a 1954 Bentley Continental R, "with the big VI engine and a 13:40 back-axle ratio," to which he fitted an Arnott supercharger so powerful that Bentley withdrew its warranty of the car.
Readers of Bond novels will note the surprising nature of the spy's love for his cars, given his policy of maintaining only a conversational knowledge of subjects, and of having as little conversation as possible in the first place.
"Bond's car was his only personal hobby," writes Fleming in Casino Royale. "A former Bentley mechanic, who worked in a garage near Bond's Chelsea flat, tended it with jealous care. Bond drove it hard and well and with an almost sensual pleasure."
Now you too can drive a Bentley Continental hard and well, and, because it's 2004, you can enjoy such modern upgrades as an air suspension, whose ride height and damper settings can be adjusted from the cockpit. You won't feel anything when you raise or lower the suspension, and when driving you won't feel anything at all in terms of interference from road conditions, unless you drive over the largest pothole imaginable at speed.
Seriously, a car's ride does not get any more comfortable than this. The new Continental GT's air suspension, coupled with four-wheel drive and the car's weight of almost 5,300 pounds, lends the feeling of riding on a cloud, with touches of a battleship and a bullet.
On the road, the Continental GT silently dominates the playing field. People get out of the way when they hear its deep exhaust growl and see its menacing grille and aggressive shoulders. From the driver's seat, the car feels like a luxurious, highly responsive freight train (aptly, Bond's nickname for his car was "the locomotive"). It coddles you, but its lively throttle, smooth steering and unbelievable torque (you will never get sick of just how forcefully and quickly it pins your head against the headrest) make it a performance car that can take on any other.
That's the miracle of the Continental GT: cars are not supposed to be simultaneously this luxurious and this powerful. It is the cheapest Bentley, yet it can go head-to-head with the most expensive model from Fiat's (nyse: FIA - news - people ) Ferrari brand, the forthcoming 612 Scaglietti coupe. Not only is the Continental GT a better deal (it costs $100,000 less than the 612 will); it also beats the 612 in horsepower (551 vs. 540) and torque (479 pound-feet vs. 434 lb.-ft.). When the Italians heard the Continental GT would have a top speed of 198 mph, they raised the 612's top speed to 199 mph--but on a rainy day, thanks to its four-wheel drive, the Continental GT could probably smoke any Ferrari.
The Bentley and the Scaglietti may be locked in a horse race in terms of performance, but the Continental GT trounces the 612 in terms of value and--by a long shot--in terms of interior luxury. Ferrari cockpits have a unique feeling; they are almost luxurious, what with their abundance of leather, but they also feature lots of black plastic and the sort of Spartan feel cherished by hardcore sports car drivers.
The interior of the Continental GT, on the other hand, is a clubroom with as much wood veneer as you've ever seen on a car. Sure, the tiny backseats are something of a joke, but even they are surrounded by rich leather and wood paneling. (Please view the slide show that follows to see photos of the Bentley's interior, and appreciate the quality for which the brand is most famous: handcraftsmanship.) Throughout the car, particularly in places you look at often, such as the center console and instrument panel, you will be amazed by the symmetry and balance of the GT's interior design, as well as the quality of the materials used throughout. This is as stately a look and feel as that of any car's interior, from any brand or any era.
While Bentley's main competitors are the two other fanciest car brands, BMW's Rolls-Royce and DaimlerChrysler's (nyse: DCX - news - people ) Maybach subsidiaries, the Continental GT, unlike Bentley's Arnage sedan, does not compete with the $300,000 cars offered by those brands. It instead takes on vehicles such as Ferraris, Ford Motor's (nyse: F) Aston Martins and upper-echelon Mercedes-Benzes such as the CL600 coupe. The main consequence of the Continental GT, from a business standpoint, will be that it will pull Bentley way ahead of Rolls-Royce and Maybach in sales volume.
In a statement released in February, Bentley said it sold 1,017 cars worldwide in 2003, and that this total was more than the number of cars sold by Rolls-Royce and Maybach combined. Some of these ultra-luxury brands only release their sales figures once a year, so we can't chart this year's standings until 2005.
Take the amount of cars that Bentley sold last year and multiply it by five. That's the amount of Continental GTs the company aims to produce, worldwide, each year. While building 5,000 GTs annually, the company's volume could go as high as 9,000 to 10,000 cars per year, including other models (the Arnage is Bentley's only other car, but a sedan companion to the GT--with a similar front end, interior and price--is due out in the first quarter of next year).
When a small, boutique manufacturer like Bentley is acquired by an enormous automaker like Volkswagen, the results can sometimes be shaky when the parent company tries to crank up the volume (Volkswagen acquired Bentley in 1998). Fiat, in the late 1980s and early 1990s, tried to jack up Ferrari's volume, which led to major quality control issues. By their nature, blue-blooded, labor-intensive automobiles are limited in volume. You can only hand-stitch so many seats, hand-finish so many sheets of wood veneer and hand-assemble so many engines in a day; try to push too many pieces through such a tiny hole and quality will suffer.
However, Volkswagen is helping another of its exotic brands, Lamborghini, overcome a decades-long quality problem by sending it lots of pre-assembled Audi parts. The result is that Lamborghini is building the highest-quality cars it has ever built. Ford is trying to make Aston Martin a higher-volume company, and is helping both Aston and Jaguar, another of its brands, overcome the British reputation for lousy quality--which is only a few steps ahead of the Italian reputation for quality.
The Continental GT would never have been conceived or built without Volkswagen's money, and the car has lots of Volkswagen components. Engine parts are from Germany. The front axle and transmission are from the Audi A8. The air suspension is similar to the one used on the A8 and Volkswagen Touareg sport utility. You can find the Continental GT's 12-cylinder engine, minus the twin turbochargers, as an option on the Volkswagen Phaeton sedan, with which the GT and Audi A8 share mechanical underpinnings. Even Bentley's CEO, Franz-Josef Paefgen, is German.
If you think that Bentley is becoming less British and more German, you're right. The Arnage is the last of the old Rolls-Royce-based products (when Rolls purchased Bentley in the 1930s, the brand was known as a sportier alternative to Rolls; by the 1970s and 1980s, Bentleys and Rolls-Royces looked virtually identical), and with the Continental GT and the forthcoming sedan, Rolls-Royce's steep prices seem to be going out the window as well.
While Paefgen has said in interviews that Bentley will never make a $100,000 automobile, the company has not priced a car this low in a long time. Our test model had a sticker price of $161,848. That's a base price of $156,285 (manufacturer's suggested retail price, plus destination charge and gas guzzler tax), plus a few options, such as five-spoke chrome wheels for $1,963, veneered door panels for $589 and a heated steering wheel for $393.
Of course, because it's a Bentley, you can customize it almost any way you want. Want ostrich seats and cherry-wood paneling? Matching luggage? It all depends on how much more you want to spend.
We still feel comfortable calling this incredibly cheap. No, you seldom hear "bargain" and "Bentley" in the same sentence, but take a look at the slide show that follows to get an idea of just how much you're getting for the money. The whole link to James Bond? That doesn't even cost a thing.
Click here for the slide show.
http://www.forbes.com/execpicks/2004/08/16/cx_dl_0816feat.html
On to the latest release:
Driving The New Bentley Continental GT
Dan Lienert
Plenty of guys get in their cars and fantasize about being James Bond, but few can claim to own his car. A new way to do so, however, has just opened up.
Click here for the slide show.
With its new, $150,000 Continental GT coupe, Volkswagen's Bentley subsidiary has revitalized a nameplate once favored by the secret agent in Ian Fleming's novels. (The Bond of the movies is more closely associated with Aston Martins.) Over the years, Bond was said to have owned three Bentleys. His first was a 1930 4.5-liter with an Amherst Villiers supercharger, introduced in the first Bond book, Casino Royale. His second, from Bond's third appearance in Moonraker, published in 1955, was a retuned 1953 Mark VI. The last, introduced in 1963's On Her Majesty's Secret Service, was a 1954 Bentley Continental R, "with the big VI engine and a 13:40 back-axle ratio," to which he fitted an Arnott supercharger so powerful that Bentley withdrew its warranty of the car.
Readers of Bond novels will note the surprising nature of the spy's love for his cars, given his policy of maintaining only a conversational knowledge of subjects, and of having as little conversation as possible in the first place.
"Bond's car was his only personal hobby," writes Fleming in Casino Royale. "A former Bentley mechanic, who worked in a garage near Bond's Chelsea flat, tended it with jealous care. Bond drove it hard and well and with an almost sensual pleasure."
Now you too can drive a Bentley Continental hard and well, and, because it's 2004, you can enjoy such modern upgrades as an air suspension, whose ride height and damper settings can be adjusted from the cockpit. You won't feel anything when you raise or lower the suspension, and when driving you won't feel anything at all in terms of interference from road conditions, unless you drive over the largest pothole imaginable at speed.
Seriously, a car's ride does not get any more comfortable than this. The new Continental GT's air suspension, coupled with four-wheel drive and the car's weight of almost 5,300 pounds, lends the feeling of riding on a cloud, with touches of a battleship and a bullet.
On the road, the Continental GT silently dominates the playing field. People get out of the way when they hear its deep exhaust growl and see its menacing grille and aggressive shoulders. From the driver's seat, the car feels like a luxurious, highly responsive freight train (aptly, Bond's nickname for his car was "the locomotive"). It coddles you, but its lively throttle, smooth steering and unbelievable torque (you will never get sick of just how forcefully and quickly it pins your head against the headrest) make it a performance car that can take on any other.
That's the miracle of the Continental GT: cars are not supposed to be simultaneously this luxurious and this powerful. It is the cheapest Bentley, yet it can go head-to-head with the most expensive model from Fiat's (nyse: FIA - news - people ) Ferrari brand, the forthcoming 612 Scaglietti coupe. Not only is the Continental GT a better deal (it costs $100,000 less than the 612 will); it also beats the 612 in horsepower (551 vs. 540) and torque (479 pound-feet vs. 434 lb.-ft.). When the Italians heard the Continental GT would have a top speed of 198 mph, they raised the 612's top speed to 199 mph--but on a rainy day, thanks to its four-wheel drive, the Continental GT could probably smoke any Ferrari.
The Bentley and the Scaglietti may be locked in a horse race in terms of performance, but the Continental GT trounces the 612 in terms of value and--by a long shot--in terms of interior luxury. Ferrari cockpits have a unique feeling; they are almost luxurious, what with their abundance of leather, but they also feature lots of black plastic and the sort of Spartan feel cherished by hardcore sports car drivers.
The interior of the Continental GT, on the other hand, is a clubroom with as much wood veneer as you've ever seen on a car. Sure, the tiny backseats are something of a joke, but even they are surrounded by rich leather and wood paneling. (Please view the slide show that follows to see photos of the Bentley's interior, and appreciate the quality for which the brand is most famous: handcraftsmanship.) Throughout the car, particularly in places you look at often, such as the center console and instrument panel, you will be amazed by the symmetry and balance of the GT's interior design, as well as the quality of the materials used throughout. This is as stately a look and feel as that of any car's interior, from any brand or any era.
While Bentley's main competitors are the two other fanciest car brands, BMW's Rolls-Royce and DaimlerChrysler's (nyse: DCX - news - people ) Maybach subsidiaries, the Continental GT, unlike Bentley's Arnage sedan, does not compete with the $300,000 cars offered by those brands. It instead takes on vehicles such as Ferraris, Ford Motor's (nyse: F) Aston Martins and upper-echelon Mercedes-Benzes such as the CL600 coupe. The main consequence of the Continental GT, from a business standpoint, will be that it will pull Bentley way ahead of Rolls-Royce and Maybach in sales volume.
In a statement released in February, Bentley said it sold 1,017 cars worldwide in 2003, and that this total was more than the number of cars sold by Rolls-Royce and Maybach combined. Some of these ultra-luxury brands only release their sales figures once a year, so we can't chart this year's standings until 2005.
Take the amount of cars that Bentley sold last year and multiply it by five. That's the amount of Continental GTs the company aims to produce, worldwide, each year. While building 5,000 GTs annually, the company's volume could go as high as 9,000 to 10,000 cars per year, including other models (the Arnage is Bentley's only other car, but a sedan companion to the GT--with a similar front end, interior and price--is due out in the first quarter of next year).
When a small, boutique manufacturer like Bentley is acquired by an enormous automaker like Volkswagen, the results can sometimes be shaky when the parent company tries to crank up the volume (Volkswagen acquired Bentley in 1998). Fiat, in the late 1980s and early 1990s, tried to jack up Ferrari's volume, which led to major quality control issues. By their nature, blue-blooded, labor-intensive automobiles are limited in volume. You can only hand-stitch so many seats, hand-finish so many sheets of wood veneer and hand-assemble so many engines in a day; try to push too many pieces through such a tiny hole and quality will suffer.
However, Volkswagen is helping another of its exotic brands, Lamborghini, overcome a decades-long quality problem by sending it lots of pre-assembled Audi parts. The result is that Lamborghini is building the highest-quality cars it has ever built. Ford is trying to make Aston Martin a higher-volume company, and is helping both Aston and Jaguar, another of its brands, overcome the British reputation for lousy quality--which is only a few steps ahead of the Italian reputation for quality.
The Continental GT would never have been conceived or built without Volkswagen's money, and the car has lots of Volkswagen components. Engine parts are from Germany. The front axle and transmission are from the Audi A8. The air suspension is similar to the one used on the A8 and Volkswagen Touareg sport utility. You can find the Continental GT's 12-cylinder engine, minus the twin turbochargers, as an option on the Volkswagen Phaeton sedan, with which the GT and Audi A8 share mechanical underpinnings. Even Bentley's CEO, Franz-Josef Paefgen, is German.
If you think that Bentley is becoming less British and more German, you're right. The Arnage is the last of the old Rolls-Royce-based products (when Rolls purchased Bentley in the 1930s, the brand was known as a sportier alternative to Rolls; by the 1970s and 1980s, Bentleys and Rolls-Royces looked virtually identical), and with the Continental GT and the forthcoming sedan, Rolls-Royce's steep prices seem to be going out the window as well.
While Paefgen has said in interviews that Bentley will never make a $100,000 automobile, the company has not priced a car this low in a long time. Our test model had a sticker price of $161,848. That's a base price of $156,285 (manufacturer's suggested retail price, plus destination charge and gas guzzler tax), plus a few options, such as five-spoke chrome wheels for $1,963, veneered door panels for $589 and a heated steering wheel for $393.
Of course, because it's a Bentley, you can customize it almost any way you want. Want ostrich seats and cherry-wood paneling? Matching luggage? It all depends on how much more you want to spend.
We still feel comfortable calling this incredibly cheap. No, you seldom hear "bargain" and "Bentley" in the same sentence, but take a look at the slide show that follows to get an idea of just how much you're getting for the money. The whole link to James Bond? That doesn't even cost a thing.
Click here for the slide show.
http://www.forbes.com/execpicks/2004/08/16/cx_dl_0816feat.html
I have not driven or ridden in either. From the "skin" point of view, both are disappointing examples of "the best luxury sedans money can buy".
The Maybach looks like it was first drawn in the early to mid nineties - big and rounded - shinny plastic looking wood on the inside, big red tail lights that remind me of those on the Lincoln Town Car, and a nose that only an owner of an S 500 MB could love. The versions I have seen have been so "jellied up" as a friend used to say; they remind me of "an average looking woman who over compensates with too much make-up and cheap looking jewelry". It's not stunning - it should be.
The RR looks like a cartoon - big square body - the bull dog from the Tom and Jerry cartoon - beady little eyes and pimples on its butt for tail lights. There appears to be no passion or soul in the design. Compared to the Maybach, it is too severe, too plane and I agree about the truck-like dash board. The gangster doors are an interesting recall - and do make sense for your driver to quickly tend to the passengers in the back - but it seems more like a cheap trick than a good solid design solution.
Both companies started with a clean slate. You'd think the visuals would be overwhelmingly fabulous - they're not - they're really very average - big and average. Neither car has great lines, jewelry like fittings, sophisticated upholstery details - nothing great - nothing new - nothing unique.
Do you suppose the marketing staff imposed buyer profiles on the design team that required them to design these cars for the "new rich"?
If given either, I would trade it immediately.
The Maybach looks like it was first drawn in the early to mid nineties - big and rounded - shinny plastic looking wood on the inside, big red tail lights that remind me of those on the Lincoln Town Car, and a nose that only an owner of an S 500 MB could love. The versions I have seen have been so "jellied up" as a friend used to say; they remind me of "an average looking woman who over compensates with too much make-up and cheap looking jewelry". It's not stunning - it should be.
The RR looks like a cartoon - big square body - the bull dog from the Tom and Jerry cartoon - beady little eyes and pimples on its butt for tail lights. There appears to be no passion or soul in the design. Compared to the Maybach, it is too severe, too plane and I agree about the truck-like dash board. The gangster doors are an interesting recall - and do make sense for your driver to quickly tend to the passengers in the back - but it seems more like a cheap trick than a good solid design solution.
Both companies started with a clean slate. You'd think the visuals would be overwhelmingly fabulous - they're not - they're really very average - big and average. Neither car has great lines, jewelry like fittings, sophisticated upholstery details - nothing great - nothing new - nothing unique.
Do you suppose the marketing staff imposed buyer profiles on the design team that required them to design these cars for the "new rich"?
If given either, I would trade it immediately.
I think the RR looks fabulous!!! I prefer it's styling to the Maybach all day long.
Pop/ American Idol judge - Simon Cowell, when asked about the 'ugly styling of the Maybach' summed it up to me in his response.
"When you're travelling first class on a 747, you're not really thinking about what it looks like on the outside"
Andy
Pop/ American Idol judge - Simon Cowell, when asked about the 'ugly styling of the Maybach' summed it up to me in his response.
"When you're travelling first class on a 747, you're not really thinking about what it looks like on the outside"
Andy
Joined
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892 Posts
An RR Phantom was parked right next to my SV at one of the San Diego meet dinners. That car made the SV look small. The dealer rep said its about 19.5 feet in lenght. Sorry, I was not able to take some pictures.
If I would choose between the Maybach and the Phantom, I'd go with the Phantom.
If I would choose between the Maybach and the Phantom, I'd go with the Phantom.
I suspect that Simon Cowell is the very last person that I would use as a benchmark for style and taste.
The Rolls and Maybach are designed to appeal to the noveau riche - seems they've scored a direct hit with Cowell.
Whilst both 'cars' are, without doubt, superbly engineered, they lack any design beauty. It's no surprise that the Maybach looks like it should belong in a funeral procession, but it is very sad that RR built such a supremely ugly car.
The Rolls and Maybach are designed to appeal to the noveau riche - seems they've scored a direct hit with Cowell.
Whilst both 'cars' are, without doubt, superbly engineered, they lack any design beauty. It's no surprise that the Maybach looks like it should belong in a funeral procession, but it is very sad that RR built such a supremely ugly car.
neilda said:
Lol. I think the Phantom looks great?
Agree on the Cowell comments though. Even he concedes that the Maybach is an ugly beast. He also has an Azure, SL55AMG, Arnage T, Mini Cooper, SMARTcabriolet that I know of. 50 pairs of outsize 80's jeans, 100 identical skin tight tops... case rested.
Quite! No further questions, witness may step down!!!
I have driven the 55 AMG and was actually quite surprised at how good it was - whilst I wouldn't want to own one, I would say that you get a lot for your money, it has some clever features, it moves quickly, seems to handle well and sounded good too. Ultimately it's a Mercedes and right now in the UK the dealer experience is dreadful for most owners (which is sadly the case with Lamborghini in some areas too).
I have driven the 55 AMG and was actually quite surprised at how good it was - whilst I wouldn't want to own one, I would say that you get a lot for your money, it has some clever features, it moves quickly, seems to handle well and sounded good too. Ultimately it's a Mercedes and right now in the UK the dealer experience is dreadful for most owners (which is sadly the case with Lamborghini in some areas too).
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