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Performante: unresponsive on hard downshift 4th to 3rd

4K views 14 replies 9 participants last post by  Blown SRT 
#1 ·
I have had my '19 Performante for about a year and a half now and have about 2K miles on it, ordered it new, absolutely love the car. I have not had any other issues with it so far and do not track the car and rarely even use launch control. I even followed the procedure to break-in properly for the first 1K miles. I'm having an intermittent issue (happened twice so far) with the car on a hard downshift/acceleration from 4th to 3rd gear where once the downshift occurs, the car stalls a bit with the transmission and gas not being responsive for a few seconds, it's almost as if you hit the rev limiter except that it's not close to redline and ofcourse that would not be possible since in Sports mode, the car changes gear automatically when you hit the rev limiter unless you're in Corsa mode. I think the last time it happened, after changing to 4th, the rev was at 6K in 3rd gear and was just stuck at that RPM for a few seconds. The issue does go away after a few seconds and you can again accelerate and upshift. So far, both times I was driving just normally in 4th, and did a quick downshift and accelerated as I normally always do in other gears. Both times it was in Sports Mode btw, going from 4th to 3rd and the car was fully warmed up.

I have taken it to the local dealer twice now, no faults and ofcourse they can't duplicate it so they think I'm just making it up. They even said I may not be doing something right? lol I've had plenty of cars with dual-clutch trans including a previous Huracan, it's just a simple downshift and acceleration.

I'm just glad I'm not on a track experiencing this, even on regular roads its scary as the car feels unresponsive. The second time it happened, I was trying to cut in front of a car and since the car stalled, had to brake hard not to hit the car in front of me, which is kinda dangerous.

Any other HP owners experience anything like this before?
 
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#4 ·
I have had this happen maybe twice so far when driving in corsa mode. Exact same issue. I thought it was some sort of software engagement issue when it occurred as it was a very brief stall in the shifting. Exactly same with relative gears. Can’t recall if 4th to 3rd or close to that bit was on a downshift and your description is exactly correct. But was a downshift and nowhere near rev limiter engagement to be sure on the next gear down that was pending engagement.
 
#5 ·
Most issues like this are caused specifically because of how twin clutch transmissions work.

The car always has what it “thinks” is going to be the next gear that you engage (obviously it doesn’t think, and it’s just what has been programmed). If you’re accelerating or cruising in fourth gear and don’t have any deceleration load, it will have fifth engaged and ready to switch over to that gear set. If you give it a ton of throttle and/or flip a paddle for a downshift, then it has to give a full shift from fifth to third while remaining in fourth. The change is still only a moment, but when you’re used to the lightning fast shift of a twin clutch when you’re banging through the gears, it feels like an eternity.

I’m surprised Lambo didn’t explain this when you were there. They don’t have the issue with Gallardos and Aventadors, obviously because they have an old school single clutch with a single row of gears instead of 2 shafts of forward ones.

It’s the same basic transmission as Porsche’s PDK in design, but Porsche has much better electronics and programming because they sell significantly more cars and do more testing.

Look up the YouTube video for a tear down of a dual clutch transmission and it makes the weird quirks much more understandable.


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#7 ·
I’m not sure though if that is fully correct as you are saying and is not exactly the response I and I suspect the other gent is talking about. You are correct that the pending other clutch is ready to engage at all times however it is ready for either the next gear up or down I had thought as any of the next sequential gears on the other bank can be engaged. The time advantage of the dual clutch is because of the possibility to quickly bounce into either of those up or down gears and reduce engage/disengagement times as you are suggesting however I do not think the issue we are talking about is at all what you are saying. I have had PDK cars in the past for a while and also the LDF in the Performante and can say with certainty the delay is well in excess of the accelerating or decelerating “uncertainty” of sorts that is discussed in what you are saying. It is a definable stalled engagement and/or switch—well beyond what even a single clutch in an Aventador or any other make is. Definitely not a common occurrence but a unique symptom of some sort—possibly not a broken part but I suspected an electronic quirk of some sort based on the rarity and otherwise normal functionality.
 
#9 ·
Exactly, I have never experienced this on any dual-clutch trans before and have had many from BMWs to Porsches including GT3s. On my last Huracan, I put about 5K miles on it, it was my first Lambo, also never experienced it and did this type of shifting many times.

My dealer has opened a case with Lamborghini, maybe they will be able provide some type of insight. At least it's good I guess that others are experiencing the same issue, at least it's not going to lead to any major issues.
 
#8 ·
The issue feels more like the clutch is slipping but it’s clearly not bcs it’s a DCT. The car behaves like it’s hitting the rev limiter when it’s not even close. Like I said I’ve personally experienced this in the Gen2 R8 and know of other Performante owners who’ve had this same experience
 
#12 ·
With all due respect Fabo - and no offence intended here...

It doesn't fix it and the issue isn't the transmission either.

I have had it and it can be dialed out in a tune...

PDK cars don't have the issue as Porsche knows how to get protect the drivetrain better than anyone else...it's why they claim 3000 launches on the 911 Turbo before damage occurs to the drivetrain. My 911 TTS has as close to Zero lag as a T/C car can have...but the miniscule lag that is there, is enough to protect the drivetrain without complex built-in software lags.

You don't see the issue in T/C cars, only N/A and blower cars...and I am guessing it's due to the lag in T/C cars...it's probably not necessary.

It's in many high performance cars today, by design...and it's a TQ limiting action that they build in to protect the drivetrain from sudden TQ that can snap drive/ half shafts and break transmissions.

I had it in my 2016 Z06, it's in my Performante, and other a few other cars I have had. To not experience the issue, you load the pedal a bit 1st, rather than just stabbing it (in the higher gears). I had it dialed out in my Z06 by a tuner. It was one or two tables in the tune that he accessed and simply changed the numbers to eliminate that delay completely.

It is possible to dial out in the Lambo as well, but would void warranty I bet...and it's visible in the tune. It's something that's built in to many high horsepower cars cars today...the Lambo's are not alone

And It doesn't happen in the lower gears.

The pedal box is nothing more than an electronic pedal travel adjustment that simply ramps the voltage up or down faster or slower to give you the effect of instant or delayed pedal. It just hits full voltage at a shorter pedal travel or can be setup to take longer to hit full voltage in the same pedal travel (wet mode) and it has ZERO to do with anything in terms of fuel delivery, power etc... It has no interaction with the engine / TCU / ECU etc...other than changing input voltage more or less rapidly. It's no different than stabbing the pedal more quickly, is all. There is ZERO data from the manufacturers that support anything different...despite the fancy videos. Any tuner will tell you the same thing.

I have tried the pedalbox and other facsimiles in other cars I have, all of who claim they get rid of throttle hesitation. That is the biggest pile of BS I've seen yet...and it reminds me of the old Tornado fuel saver that was supposed to enhance mileage by creating a vortex in the air intake. What a pile of crap that was...total snake oil!

There is no magic here and you can't use a pedal box or any other pedal assist box to get rid of that hesitation. A good tuner can dial it out. A pedalbox is a total waste of money and won't address this issue in the least

Flame away people...;)
 
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#13 ·
^^^

He's correct. If you're in a higher gear and try to downshift to where the Rpms will be too high in the lower gear the car doesn't down shift. I've experienced this and I'm glad it's there because I would have surely blown my engine up if left to my own vices.


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