I am in contact with a gentleman that is local to the Pa area that seems to be very knowledgeable and is owner of a highly rated exotic auto shop that confirms the electronics are somewhat unclear. He is researching the wiring to better determine the actual changes that need to occur. I like this gentleman because he speaks facts, not conjecture. As I move forward, I will keep all informed. I am very serious about swapping the e-gear out. Hopefully, once accomplished under the expertise of this gentleman and his shop, many more can breathe easier and have it done. Some of the parts, such as the shift gate, if necessary, will be machined if not available. I am also in contact with an engineer in Oregon that is also very keen on the project.
OBD III port and e-gear problem
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Easy changes for Lamborghini engineers to make to things like wiring harnesses and ECU’s become massive mountains to climb for others to reverse engineer since they aren’t keen to publish this info. And parts availability is becoming a real issue since you won’t find many 6-speeds in junk yards given market values keeping them from being totaled, and Lambo themselves are not restocking as much for their older cars.
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We have methods to make ex-engineers talk!
Murcis: LP640 Roadster and 03 Manual Coup. LP570 Perf. Manual F355, 456, 997 GT3, Lotus Elise, Ariel
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82 Posts
I'm confident that it can be mechanically converted, assuming you have a shifter and pedal box. And if you don't, I imagine those parts can be cloned.
The real question is: Can you get the ECU to play along?
To my knowledge, no one has succeeded in reusing the factory eGear ECU. They either bought a factory manual ECU or went entirely aftermarket.
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270 Posts
I sure hope the factory doesn't sell manual ECUs to anyone that asks. As Stimpy said some parts might not be made in the future.
My question is what would a converted car sell for? The engine management would have to be custom. This is hypothetical since no conversions have been successful.
My question is what would a converted car sell for? The engine management would have to be custom. This is hypothetical since no conversions have been successful.
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85 Posts
I totally agree. But from a technology viewpoint, this is old technology used on these vehicles compared to that of what is used in cars today; and could be a challenge to decode or reverse engineer, but not impossible. I work with hardware development of (what I believe to be) much more complex designs (some have been for the automotive industry) on a daily basis. I also work with firmware and software developers, which is maybe why I have this viewpoint. And yes, for me, finding a 6 – speed manual transmission (and some of the other related parts) was the first and most important step in the process.
There was a gentleman in Hong Kong who successfully completed the mechanical conversion to manual of an SV and last I checked (around 6 months ago) was trying to sort the software side out. If I can dig it out I'll share his IG handle.
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85 Posts
Why couldn't it be as simple as flashing the firmware from a manual car? The part number for the ECUs look to be the same for both type of cars.
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Or get an FPGA and flash it with original firmware, then do the hard work… wire it up and debug it.
I have been following the posts with keen interest. Many good ideas but no action. What will it take to have group of us get together and get this done? The reward of sheer ownership of driving should repay all. The electronics are well above my understanding.... get cut or wounded...I can help!! I have written to the factory; they say they cannot support the effort at all but do say that they will sell the needed parts via their dealer network. So much for that.
Think of the possibilities: Start an entire business based upon carbon fiber cloned parts...could do all Lambo, Ferrari, Maserati...etc.; do all Lambos as aftermarket ..the sheer price increases in the manuals retail would be appealing less the absence of the major manufacturers now , past and the future; last , the shops that look to specialty repairs at current rates per hour that alone should be conducive to finding a solution. I am conversing with a carbon fiber manufacturer that believes the CF could be even better than that originally supplied by the OEMs. What is needed is the original parts as cloning basis.....they can replicate rapidity and accurately. Own the equipment and a new business entity is formed.
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That is defiantly an idea. There are several companies currently producing quality CF parts for the Lamborghini and Ferrari, but it is a limited market (IMHO). For example, with only 4099 Murcielagos produced, the limitations really start there. And I personally prefer to use the OEM plastic, CF or fiberglass cosmetic parts when possible, unless I’m purposely changing the way something looks. For example, take the tunnel assembly…$8752.73 list from Lamborghini plus shipping. Most people are probably not going to want to pay that for it. They would probably look at just modifying the E-Gear tunnel. But then to make a mold for reproduction and then have it laying around taking up space to sell maybe one or two at $4k to $5k, probably not the most efficient use of the business. These are just going to be what they are...limited.
What I implied was that for those pieces that are needed to replicate the OEM parts, if wanted such as the shift tower. I am aware of others that have modified the tunnel, for example, adding a door for access. All of that should be completed to be sure to hold the costs to a minimum. I would CF : the shift tower, the shift lever and knob, the linkage bar (as on DRIFTWORKS -UK). The other components can remain as is with possibly only modifications such as the pedal box. The entire box can be replicated also but the addition of the third pedal and bushings seems well within the scope of a good shop.
Not knowing very much about electronics, does it make sense that the electronics can be reflashed to cooperate with the removal of the e-gear? The rear brake lights, the shift, etc. on the dash.... all should be able to be reflashed . If Lambo made the 6-speed manual, they should know. Does anyone have contact at plant that can help explain?
The changeover should not affect the plant at all .... these are all older autos that need the change.
The changeover should not affect the plant at all .... these are all older autos that need the change.
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From looking at the Lambo computer, I have the impression they outsourced the ECU work.You can bet someone knows what is needed, but it might not be someone that is/was employed at the Lambo factory.
Hey Stimpy...you may be on to the solution to the headache. Once done, after getting the costs for the new OEM parts from Lambo plant at $61,000 (they included the $38,000 for the transmission replacement for some reason) the carbon fiber option is looking much better.
ow is a list of parts I could come up with that I'd imagine you would need for the conversion. Again, since we haven't done something like this in house, I don't have the exact list of parts needed.
Price Quote
ow is a list of parts I could come up with that I'd imagine you would need for the conversion. Again, since we haven't done something like this in house, I don't have the exact list of parts needed.
Price Quote
| Product Description | Item # | List | Stock | Our Price | Qty | Ext Price | |||
# 1 | IGNITION CABLE | 07M905532E | $1,965.00 | out-of-stock | $1,839.24 | 1 | $1,839.24 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $294.75 more. | |||||||||
# 2 | MURCIELAGO GEARBOX ASSEMBLY | 249900014 | $38,050.00 | out-of-stock | $38,050.00 | 1 | $38,050.00 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $5,707.50 more. | |||||||||
# 3 | MURCIELAGO LP640/670 CLUTCH (MANUAL AND EGEAR) | 07M105269 | $5,950.00 | out-of-stock | $5,569.20 | 1 | $5,569.20 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $892.50 more. | |||||||||
# 4 | Murci ThrowOut Bearing Manual | 086141671B | $4,245.00 | 3 | $4,008.98 | 1 | $4,008.98 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 3 | |||||||||
# 5 | HEXAGON HEAD BOLT | WHT002951 | $18.40 | out-of-stock | $17.22 | 8 | $137.78 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $22.08 more. | |||||||||
# 6 | RETAINING PART | 410141179 | $61.93 | out-of-stock | $57.97 | 4 | $231.87 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $37.16 more. | |||||||||
# 7 | SWITCH BOARD ANSOR | 413941567 | $1,560.00 | 1 | $1,460.16 | 1 | $1,460.16 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 1 | |||||||||
# 8 | FRAME | 418863315 | $1,150.00 | out-of-stock | $1,076.40 | 1 | $1,076.40 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $172.50 more. | |||||||||
# 9 | TUNNEL CASE COVER ASSEMBLY | 418864263 | $559.00 | out-of-stock | $523.22 | 1 | $523.22 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $83.85 more. | |||||||||
# 10 | GEARBOX SELECTOR FRAME | 410711139 | $868.00 | out-of-stock | $812.45 | 1 | $812.45 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $130.20 more. | |||||||||
# 11 | INSTRUMENT CLUSTER | 410920900L | $4,890.00 | out-of-stock | $4,577.04 | 1 | $4,577.04 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $733.50 more. | |||||||||
# 12 | Mileage Sticker | 063000337 | $3.80 | out-of-stock | $3.66 | 1 | $3.66 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $0.57 more. | |||||||||
# 13 | INSERT | 410721671 | $23.50 | out-of-stock | $22.00 | 2 | $43.99 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $7.05 more. | |||||||||
# 14 | HEX.NUT | N01100637 | $7.34 | 18 | $2.00 | 2 | $4.00 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 18 | |||||||||
# 15 | CLUTCH PEDAL | 413721321A | $552.00 | out-of-stock | $516.67 | 1 | $516.67 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $82.80 more. | |||||||||
# 16 | COVER | 400721779 | $597.00 | out-of-stock | $558.79 | 1 | $558.79 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $89.55 more. | |||||||||
# 17 | PEDAL PAD | 400721173 | $33.60 | 2 | $31.45 | 1 | $31.45 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 2 | |||||||||
# 18 | MASTER CYLINDER 2008 and Up | 410721401A | $365.00 | out-of-stock | $344.71 | 1 | $344.71 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $54.75 more. | |||||||||
# 19 | PRESSURE LINE | 413721461B | $132.00 | out-of-stock | $123.55 | 1 | $123.55 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $19.80 more. | |||||||||
# 20 | HOSE LINE | 413721465 | $18.65 | out-of-stock | $17.46 | 1 | $17.46 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $2.80 more. | |||||||||
# 21 | BRACKET,BRAKE HOSE | 400611799 | $7.25 | 14 | $2.00 | 6 | $12.00 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 14 | |||||||||
# 22 | CABLE HOLDER | 400971848 | $7.27 | 18 | $2.00 | 2 | $4.00 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 18 | |||||||||
# 23 | PIN | 400611757 | $2.05 | 9 | $1.92 | 1 | $1.92 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 9 | |||||||||
# 24 | CONNECTING PART | 410721419A | $80.70 | out-of-stock | $75.54 | 1 | $75.54 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $12.11 more. | |||||||||
# 25 | PRESSURE LINE | 410721462A | $215.00 | out-of-stock | $201.24 | 1 | $201.24 | ||
| [Accept Rush Fee] This is a special order item or we are out of stock. You may RUSH this item for $32.25 more. | |||||||||
# 26 | BANJO BOLT | N0210717 | $3.55 | 9 | $3.31 | 1 | $3.31 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 9 | |||||||||
# 27 | WASHER A12X17 | N0138131 | $7.29 | 18 | $2.00 | 2 | $4.00 | ||
| In Stock - Ready to ship Qty: 18 | |||||||||
| PRINT Subtotal:$60,232.61 Shipping*:deferred * Total:$60,232.61 Savings: $1,536.98 |
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85 Posts
For example, Fab Speed sells an ECU Tune software in which you send them your ECU and they flash it with their modified version (after saving your existing firmware); I believe that it would be as simple as having them flash your ECU with one for a manual car (I’ve never done this, nor I do I know this for a fact, but it only makes logical sense to me). I sent Fab Speed an email a short while ago to confirm if this would be the case.
In regards to the cars VIN#, it is stored in a PROM on the ECU and is only programable once (at the factory or unless you purchase a new one from Lamborghini). So flashing your current ECU with a different car’s firmware, won’t change the VIN# settings for the car, only the configuration.
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