[gknoob]

What modifications need to be done to The MSD 7AL-2 ignition for a V-12 application. Also, which Coil is recommended. One last thing, does anyone have the correct wiring details for this change/upgrade.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[raymond]

Here you can order such a box: http://www.countach.ch/MSD/

What Countach Type/Year do you have?

Edit, sorry I just saw in the other thread you have an anniversary, well try to find one telling you how to wire it
Call Burtoni, he sells you the box for $2500 plus shipment...

 

[raymond]

I just finished preparing a box for a 25th Anniversary, I always produce a mounting plate which fits in the specific Countach model, here the one of the 25th.


The box is now wired and ready to install, the owner of the black Anni will visit me on Sunday and drive home with a smile on his face

 

[suzukidave]

I wired one in on a 1983 countach. I went to checker auto and bought the box and sent it to msd in el paso texas and they modded it for about 40 bucks. msd supplied me with the wiring schematic. A little footnote I ended up having to use a different power wire (one on the alternator) and a different ground than the ones originally feeding the stock ignition for the tach to properly work. It would not work right wired to the stock power and ground. Msd told me this was normal. I think I still have the schematic that they sent me if you can't get one, but I don't know if it will work on a anniversary.
Dave

 

[raymond]

It will not work on a 25th...
I needed 4 hours to sort it out, that's the reason why I don't tell it, because I'm selling the boxes. Well not the box but a ready made plug in solution which needs some hours to produce.

The stock power and ground has nothing to do with the tacho.
It works normal with the existing wiring, meanwhile 4 boxes from 1982 LP500s to 25th were installed and run great.

 

[jollygood]

What modifications need to be done to The MSD 7AL-2 ignition for a V-12 application. Also, which Coil is recommended. One last thing, does anyone have the correct wiring details for this change/upgrade.

Thanks,
Greg

Greg,
The most recommended coil according to both MSD tech help (915-857-5200) and their website for the MSD7AL-2 is the MSD 8261 Pro Power HVCII coil. It's from the latest generation and has a 2 amp (yes!!!) output at 45000 volts and is recommended for long duration and street applications. It's listed at about 130.00 USD at various websites. The conversion to 12 cylinders is 35.00 USD according to MSD tech help.
Cheers,
Bjoern
GLA12982

 

[raymond]

Nice greetings from your distributor cap and rotor if you burn them down with 2 amps the whole time...
The Coil Burtoni uses with his MSD-Setup brings 300mA which is far enough...

I have the 8251 installed which sets 1,1 Amps, Lonnie of Permatune already had some Ferris and Porsches with burnt rotors from the MSD because they used too powerful coils, more is not always better...

 

[jollygood]

Nice greetings from your distributor cap and rotor if you burn them down with 2 amps the whole time...
The Coil Burtoni uses with his MSD-Setup brings 300mA which is far enough...

I have the 8251 installed which sets 1,1 Amps, Lonnie of Permatune already had some Ferris and Porsches with burnt rotors from the MSD because they used too powerful coils, more is not always better...

Yes, I was asking the the same question regarding the higher amperage output to MSD tech help (Carlo) and was told that it was no problem using the 8261 coil if I had a standard distributor and standard wires. The only thing was to avoid platinum spark plugs.
Cheers,
Bjoern
QV GLA12982

 

[raymond]

Forget what MSD tech tells you, they do not know the specs of your rotor, as I said, Lonni Lenarduzzi told me of many Ferraris and Porsche with burnt rotor and cap when they used MSD-Units and a too strong coil.
Even on my Porsche 944 Turbo Cup I had a burnt rotor after I used a new coil which is the official replacement of Bosch for that model.

To go into theory, modern coil which are used in the Diablos, Murcis and Gallardos produce about 35Kv and 60-70mJ engery.
The MSD 7 produces 48KV with 115MJ, do you really think it's necessary to pump 2 Amps through your old style distributor cap and rotor.
Absolut nonsense, I tried a 300mA coil as well as the 1,1Amps, no difference in performance, but your plugs, rotor and cap will be burnt away with that current...
Since it's so easy and cheap to get new caps and rotors just go on with your hot coil, but remember MSD refers to racing not to street application with 20 year old ignition technology.

 

[raymond]

BTW.

I just installed my box some hours ago in a 25th Anniversary:
http://www.countach.ch/MSD/

 

[jollygood]

Forget what MSD tech tells you, they do not know the specs of your rotor, as I said, Lonni Lenarduzzi told me of many Ferraris and Porsche with burnt rotor and cap when they used MSD-Units and a too strong coil.
Even on my Porsche 944 Turbo Cup I had a burnt rotor after I used a new coil which is the official replacement of Bosch for that model.

To go into theory, modern coil which are used in the Diablos, Murcis and Gallardos produce about 35Kv and 60-70mJ engery.
The MSD 7 produces 48KV with 115MJ, do you really think it's necessary to pump 2 Amps through your old style distributor cap and rotor.
Absolut nonsense, I tried a 300mA coil as well as the 1,1Amps, no difference in performance, but your plugs, rotor and cap will be burnt away with that current...
Since it's so easy and cheap to get new caps and rotors just go on with your hot coil, but remember MSD refers to racing not to street application with 20 year old ignition technology.

Would like to share some info since I just talked to another guy at MSD tech help and initially he also recommended the 8261 coil but later changed his mind and recommended the MSD 8253 Blaster HVCII coil instead. It has a longer spark duration of 450 us compared to the 8261 and a peak current of 450 mA. Due to that this is for a street application and the Countach has a relatively low compression engine (below 12.5:1) this was his recommendation. With regards to frying the rotor and cap he was not worried at all when using the 8261 coil.
Cheers,
Bjoern
GLA12982

 

[terryjoint]

Raymond, I have just fitted and test driven the box you sold me, literally 10 mins ago. It has made an incredible difference, power, smooth running and hardly any lag below 3000 rpm which I used to get a lot.
Thanks

 

[raymond]

@Terry
great to hear your satisfaction, well you have a permatune.
The MSD causes some Tacho problems on older LP500s Countachs, that's why I recommended the permatune for you.
I still have to sort out the problems another LP500s in Sofia has with the MSD 7.
QV and 25th are no problem, but they must have changed the tacho on the lp500s from 1984 on. Perhaps it would be necessary to replace the tacho circuit on older cars like yours to get it working with the MSD-Box' Signal.

@Bjoern
forget what the MSD tech says, I just talked with Rico of www.valtellina-automobili.com for more than 3 hours.
He said with this coil you will burn down your cap and rotor in a few tousand miles, he said the Box itself brings the huge difference, no matter of the coil, even the Blaster 2 would be enough. To use more current just decrease live of the plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor with no beneficial aspect.

The Owner of the 25th Anni I installed my box on sunday confirmed yesterday that there is no difference between the SS blaster and the HVC 8251.
So why should I go the dangerous way and burning all down, because some tech freaks at MSD tell it's not dangerous?
MSD produces Boxes for dragster with exotic mixtures and 14:1 compression, there you need that amount of energy, but that's drag racing and racing in common, not driving on the road for 10 tousands of miles.

 

[raymond]

Important and good news, my MSD-Setup runs now also on the LP500S Countachs, something that the double as expensive Burtoni never achieved!

Remember, I sell the complete setup with a mounting plate fitting exactly to the specific Countach model for $1250, whereas Burtoni bills you $2500.

BTW, MSD increased their prices about 10%, but mine stay the same!

 

[terryjoint]

Raymond, is there any point in me having one for my LP500S ?, the prematune works really well.

 

[raymond]

Terry,

no need to change, the MSD performs a little bit better but not that difference to spend again money.

I prefer selling the MSD because it's cheaper than the Permatune, you got your permatune for the same/lower price than I'm selling the MSD (It was a lost for me but now I sell my MSD-Units only).

 

[gknoob]

Running now

I would like to thank Raymond for all his help with my ignition. No more cutting out at 4000 RPM and wiring was simple with Raymond's help.

Car running better than ever.

 

[terryjoint]

I agree, I respect the advice given by Raymond and refer everyone to him especially C/T owners.
Thanks Raymond
( If you want a trip to sunny Spain let me know )

 

[raymond]

I would like to thank Raymond for all his help with my ignition. No more cutting out at 4000 RPM and wiring was simple with Raymond's help.

Car running better than ever.

Glad to hear your monster is roaring again :wave:

 

[raymond]

Because my engine is now taken to pieces we recognized that the MSD-Ignitions produces to much spark when going over the normal 300mA coils.
At the moment I have the HVS-Coils with 1,1 amp what is simply too much.

I will go back to the coil I'm selling with my kits...

The coal was almost burnt away from the piston what is not good.