Lamborghini Talk banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I sold my Gallardo to a very nice gentleman. Since he was 1/2 way across the country we did the transaction remotely and he sent a carrier to pick up the car.

The car is as nice a G as you will ever find. The clutch showed 80% life, zero overheat events and zero launches. Now it may turn out good to have this documentation.


The car shipping business seems to be filled with eastern europeans that for many seem to have English as a 2nd language. (at least the last 4 carriers I have dealt with all were).

So I gave him a pick up location of a very large parking lot. When we got there, I showed him how the car operates and he said he knew the car. He also said the E-gear was a lot harder to load than a normal manual car. With that statement, I did not think I needed to tell him how to load since he seemed to know. But I even offered to load it for him if he wanted, and he declined.

So I just sat back and watched. He got the nose on the ramp and then let the car ride back and forth for what seemed like an eternity. The entire time hanging on the clutch. He put his foot on the brake and asked me to look down the side of the car if it would clear the internal wheel wells. I confirmed it was clear.

He then let off the brake and again, just was holding the car on the incline ramp. It got to the point where I got nervous and pulled out my phone when I saw little whiffs of smoke. Then he pulled the last bit in and MAN the smoke really rolled out. The smell of burning clutch was terrible.

I had to make the call I did not want to the new owner and I shared the video with him. The LAST thing I want is for his enjoyment of the delivery of the car to be ruined, but I dont know if this may have caused any real damage. It did not trigger an overheat warning on the dash. (which is amazing to me)

Anyone ever seen a clutch get worn on like this. All told I am guessing he was just hanging on it on the ramp back and forth for over a minute.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
757 Posts
Yep. That clutch is a goner. Read a whole bunch of other posts, they say when loading the car on a ramp, they need to use a winch. There's just too much slipping that needs to occur otherwise to load it. I've read several posts where owners have done that and the clutch went a few drives later.

Might not happen here, if you're lucky, but something to consider.

1) I guess you can tell the new owner to get a snap, if it's significantly less than 80%... figure something out.
2) If the new owner is only putting a few hundred miles a year on it, probably would be OK. If he reports back in a few hundred miles that it's toast, maybe split the difference?
3) Either 1 or 2, reach out to the shipper and maybe insurer and see what you can get, but it might not be worth the trouble and you might have to sue.

The main difference is when an eGear clutch smokes, it's bad. When a gated clutch smokes, it's not as bad. The eGear engages differently than your foot would.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
@InfiniteLoop . It was his shipper. I even offered to load the car but he said he knew how to drive vehicle.

I sold a R8 a while back with an R-tronic (same thing as LP e-gear) and I loaded the car for the shipper when the buyer sent the transporter.

I shared the vid with the buyer and said if it was my car, I would have another snap done to see if any significant wear was done. I also sent him the vid and said I would reach out to his shipper to make them aware of what was done during loading by their driver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
757 Posts
Then you're probably fine. I just wrote up a 3 paragraph response with some legal jargon my general counsel told me once about shipping a car from Cali to Portland, but it was TLDR, haha.

If there are issues, he can deal with the shipper.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Then you're probably fine. I just wrote up a 3 paragraph response with some legal jargon my general counsel told me once about shipping a car from Cali to Portland, but it was TLDR, haha.

If there are issues, he can deal with the shipper.

Yea....I just hate this for the buyer. He put a ton of faith in me buying the car sight unseen, and I wanted him to have as good an experience receiving the car. This car GREATLY exceeded my expectations even though I was told how spotless it was. I wanted him to have the same experience. There are times when you sell something and it is so nice, you know the buyer will be super happy when they get it. This is that type of car.

I am hoping there are no issues, but I would not have felt right about not sending that to him. I even took very good walk around vids of the car right before loading...etc. So many things out of our control. But a guy sending you 100k on your word that you are sending him the car that you are representing is something that is not lost on me. I just want the new buyer to have a great experience.

I will update, but I am hoping someone comes in and says they have seen a car do this before and not do any long term damage.

I always drove the car with the clutch and proper engagement in mind. I am hoping is it OK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
757 Posts
After reviewing the video, the shipper was standing on the brakes almost the whole time WHILE pressing the accelerator (see brake lights AND exhaust noises). Dear Lord! He was obviously doing this to prevent the car from rolling back. It's something a manual driver usually does. Though personally, the handbrake is usually a bit safer. But this isn't a good idea on the egear. It's either gas OR brakes, not both.

Also, the eGears have hill start assist... so if you're starting off while stopped on an incline and your foot goes from brakes to gas... the car will HOLD the brakes for a few seconds to prevent it from rolling back while your foot moves to the accelerator. It will do this on even the most gentlest incline, so would have definitely done it on this ramp. If he knew this car, he'd have known there was no need to use the brake pedal at all. THAT'S probably why the clutch smoked. This was very painful to watch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Holy eff... I was drooling over your car in the fs posts. So sad to see this guy smoke it up like that. I’m picking mine up Saturday, and driving it home. These shippers are just awful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
97.0 VT Roadster / 08 Gallardo Spyder
Joined
·
1,208 Posts
Absolutely inexcusable!!? That meathead has zero idea about these cars! Painful to watch. This is yet another reason never to valet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Very sorry to see this. I hope the reading is ok at the new owner. It'd be good to know this as a matter of knowledge base. Can you please update us on what the clutch reading is if you hear from the new guy?

I am very sceptical of people precisely because of this communication issue - he tells you he's driven cars like this before, and probably meant it's tricky to get it loaded. You took his assurances of experience to mean he knows about e-gear preservation. Because nobody spelt out exactly what they were thinking.

Although spelling out exactly what you are thinking and meaning at all times to the requisite detail makes it very hard to live life.... Anyway...

I have similar concerns about anyone else driving my car. So this means no valet parking. No car washing without my attendance. And no chain store mechanics who don't know about these e-gears...

A bit of a pain in the arse. Especially the washing. I have to do it myself most times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Holy eff... I was drooling over your car in the fs posts. So sad to see this guy smoke it up like that. I’m picking mine up Saturday, and driving it home. These shippers are just awful.

I miss it already! ;) Here is a quick walk around vid I shot for the new owner before the car was loaded in case there were any damages. There literally is only one small rock chip the size of a pepper flake on the nose which is tough to see and someone once opened the door too far and it was touched up and hard to see unless you are washing the car.



Here is the after it was loaded vid, and you can see the smoke still coming out. The driver was saying how it was harder than a manual and it kept going back and forth. (at least that is what I think he was saying).

I feel really badly about this. If I was not there, who would know this happened? Then the new owner might blame me if there was a problem with the car when he got it. It is also the reason it is very nice to have snap readings to refer to from before the sale so no one can point fingers.

Just in the end, as a fellow lambo owner, I wanted his delivery to be something he enjoyed. Now he has to wonder if the car is OK



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
That’s insane. What was he thinking!? I would be more concerned with the clutch material and/or flywheel being glazed more than the clutch itself being burned off, don’t know if a clutch snap will tell you much. HiTech Exotics is a real expert so maybe he chime in on what kind of damage may have been done if any. Hoping everything is ok. Credit to you for taking the video and being so honest with your buyer, you’re exactly the kind of person I’d want to do business with in buying/selling private party.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
That’s insane. What was he thinking!? I would be more concerned with the clutch material and/or flywheel being glazed more than the clutch itself being burned off, don’t know if a clutch snap will tell you much. HiTech Exotics is a real expert so maybe he chime in on what kind of damage may have been done if any. Hoping everything is ok. Credit to you for taking the video and being so honest with your buyer, you’re exactly the kind of person I’d want to do business with in buying/selling private party.

Yes, I'd LOVE to get some feedback from @Hi Tech Exotic on if they have ever seen anyone do this and if it is likely any damage occured.

I reached out to a guy I know at Chicago Motorcars and sent him the vid. His comment was he has seen worse, but does not think it caused any real damage. I am hoping so. Just was hard to see.

I appreciate the kind words. When you sell a car like this that you really know is one of the nicer examples, it is a good feeling to know when the buyer gets it, they will be happy. When I was looking to buy it, I was told it was the nicest Gallardo they have ever seen, but I just caulked it up to a sales guy speech. When I got the car, I was presently surprised since it was essentially perfect. I wanted the new owner to have that same experience.

I did not want to ruin his experience of getting the car, but being honest and sharing it with him was really the only choice to make. This is a small world, and I have always tried to do the best by people and I think the benefits far outweigh the alternatives.

Hopefully Hi Tech can jump in and share some experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
That’s insane. What was he thinking!?
Well to be fair, this shouldnt be a problem. The gallardo and the F430 are the only cars I know of where this is something you have to consider. Kind of ridiculous, really. Theres a post on here where a guy reversed up his driveway and took his clutch from 100% to 0% by the time he was in the garage.

The egears eat clutches and the true manuals all have a blown up 2nd gear synchro. Thats just the L140 for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Well to be fair, this shouldnt be a problem. The gallardo and the F430 are the only cars I know of where this is something you have to consider. Kind of ridiculous, really. Theres a post on here where a guy reversed up his driveway and took his clutch from 100% to 0% by the time he was in the garage.

The egears eat clutches and the true manuals all have a blown up 2nd gear synchro. Thats just the L140 for you.

I disagree. If I took a manual can and held in on the ramp with only the clutch for as long as he did, it would have the same result. Add to that, if you put your foot on the brake and let the clutch out for a minute after that,....again...smoked clutch.

I had offered to load the car for him. And I would have got it up there with ZERO issue since I know how to drive the car. I would have put no more wear on the clutch than if I were feathering it vs the computer because I know the car.

I loaded my R8 for the carrier when I sold it (R tronic is same as e-gear as the LP cars). It was a total non issue and the car was lined up, and then I smoothly loaded the car. You just cant stay in limbo regardless of e-gear or true manual.

What you are missing is this was going on for like over a minute and I pulled my phone out to capture the last bits of it because I became nervous watching. It was a terrible job of driving the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Yes, you could totally do the same thing in a manual car. The reason this happens with the egear, though, is because you dont have the same level of control. I can drive my manual transmission up my driveway and I can modulate the clutch, gas, brake in a way to save clutch life. On the egear you are at the mercy of the software running the show. There are ways to drive the egear up hill with minimal clutch damage. Just have to give it a boot full instead of feathering the throttle. Not sure how many people know that, though. These transporter guys drive so many cars, they have no clue what theyre doing half the time

Either way, it really shouldnt be an issue. Not many cars where you should have to worry about this at all. I've never been too impressed with the L140 for reasons like this. What I find interesting is like I said above, the manual cars almost always have a ruined 2nd gear synchro, the egear cars dont have that problem. The egear cars, on average, have a lower clutch life than the manual ones. Just the nuances of this specific transmission and the egear programming.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
779 Posts
When I first got my car I wanted to weigh it and was at a friends house and his jack would not go under my car. So we tried a few 2x6s to step up to the ramps but due to his garage setup didn't have any roll to it. So tried getting on the 2x6s and the clutch made a terrible smell and smoked and that was just for trying for a short time. Before this had happened I had a clutch snap with 25% clutch life left. I drove the car for another year after this incident before I had it replaced (41k miles ago). It might smell and look but but as long as it isn't extreme it isn't for sure end of the world.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
1,761 Posts
Yes, I'd LOVE to get some feedback from @Hi Tech Exotic on if they have ever seen anyone do this and if it is likely any damage occured.

I reached out to a guy I know at Chicago Motorcars and sent him the vid. His comment was he has seen worse, but does not think it caused any real damage. I am hoping so. Just was hard to see.

I appreciate the kind words. When you sell a car like this that you really know is one of the nicer examples, it is a good feeling to know when the buyer gets it, they will be happy. When I was looking to buy it, I was told it was the nicest Gallardo they have ever seen, but I just caulked it up to a sales guy speech. When I got the car, I was presently surprised since it was essentially perfect. I wanted the new owner to have that same experience.

I did not want to ruin his experience of getting the car, but being honest and sharing it with him was really the only choice to make. This is a small world, and I have always tried to do the best by people and I think the benefits far outweigh the alternatives.

Hopefully Hi Tech can jump in and share some experience.
Unfortunately this clutch is either damaged or lost a lot of clutch life. This is why we tell all Lamborghini owners never ever drive it up onto a truck. You "MUST" use a winch to pull the car in. The first gear on these cars are so tall, it would be like taking off from a 2nd gear of other cars. 04 Gallardo's 1st gear goes up to 72 mph... CRAZY TALL... Some cars are already in 3rd gear by then. After 2006, Lamborghini made 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear shorter but relative to other cars, they are still tall gears.

You will chew up the clutch more with an E-gear but you can also burn a manual clutch if you drive it up to the truck. There is less chance of burning the manual clutch but you can definitely burn a manual clutch. Diablo and early Murcielago had manual clutch and we have seen many of them burning their clutch when they were getting loaded onto a truck. We used to go to Italiano Concourse/Pebble beach in Monterey California, a lot of Lamborghini owners would ship their car there. Every year there were about 2-4 Diablo or Murcielago that the truck drivers burnt up the clutch. Really sad!!!

The clutch snap is not going to be accurate in this case because it could have been glazed. The snap might show 50% but that 50% is glazed. How glazed it is, we don't know till we see the clutch. We have had customers who had 50 or 60% clutch life left but the clutch was slipping. That's because the clutch was glazed so it's like having 50% of glazed clutch thickness. Clutch has no friction because it's glazed. In this case time will tell how badly it was glazed.

I know you mentioned that you did it with R-Tronic but you were lucky because you can burn your clutch with R-Tronic too. R-Tronic has 2nd generation E-gear and Pre-LP(04-08) Gallardo has a 1st generation E-gear. You're not at fault here but if you drove it onto the truck, then it would have been your fault. Right now, it's the truck driver's fault.

The lesson here is to NEVER EVER load a Lamborghini onto a truck. USE A WINCH!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Unfortunately this clutch is either damaged or lost a lot of clutch life. This is why we tell all Lamborghini owners never ever drive it up onto a truck. You "MUST" use a winch to pull the car in. The first gear on these cars are so tall, it would be like taking off from a 2nd gear of other cars. 04 Gallardo's 1st gear goes up to 72 mph... CRAZY TALL... Some cars are already in 3rd gear by then. After 2006, Lamborghini made 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear shorter but relative to other cars, they are still tall gears.

You will chew up the clutch more with an E-gear but you can also burn a manual clutch if you drive it up to the truck. There is less chance of burning the manual clutch but you can definitely burn a manual clutch. Diablo and early Murcielago had manual clutch and we have seen many of them burning their clutch when they were getting loaded onto a truck. We used to go to Italiano Concourse/Pebble beach in Monterey California, a lot of Lamborghini owners would ship their car there. Every year there were about 2-4 Diablo or Murcielago that the truck drivers burnt up the clutch. Really sad!!!

The clutch snap is not going to be accurate in this case because it could have been glazed. The snap might show 50% but that 50% is glazed. How glazed it is, we don't know till we see the clutch. We have had customers who had 50 or 60% clutch life left but the clutch was slipping. That's because the clutch was glazed so it's like having 50% of glazed clutch thickness. Clutch has no friction because it's glazed. In this case time will tell how badly it was glazed.

I know you mentioned that you did it with R-Tronic but you were lucky because you can burn your clutch with R-Tronic too. R-Tronic has 2nd generation E-gear and Pre-LP(04-08) Gallardo has a 1st generation E-gear. You're not at fault here but if you drove it onto the truck, then it would have been your fault. Right now, it's the truck driver's fault.

The lesson here is to NEVER EVER load a Lamborghini onto a truck. USE A WINCH!!!!

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and knowledge. He is supposed to be getting the car today, so I hope to hear if every thing is OK. Thanks again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
You're welcome!!! Hopefully the clutch is not damaged too much. Keep us updated.

New owner got the car today. Said it was "AWESOME". He said he drove it and it was fine. But like you said...time will tell.


I am just super happy he is pleased. Selling a car to someone 1/2 way across the country sight unseen, you want to make sure you represent the car accurately. The great thing about it, is the car was just so damn nice. I didnt feel I was embellishing when I said it is the cleanest example you will find.

Needless to say, he was not disappointed, and so I am happy.

I am hoping he has no clutch issues down the line. That was just a scary thing to see! Ever since I got that car, I was always so careful with the clutch. I had come from an R-tronic R8, but the Pre-LP I would say is a little more 'raw'. (with the LP sharing the same shifting mech as the R8).

All in all....new owner happy, I am happy!

Thanks for all the advice and help!
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top