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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My email chain with them is incredibly long. Posting it below for transparency, but here is the summary:
April 2 I placed a $1280 order for a 2nd gear synchro. Today marks 150 days since sending them the money. I was never advised of how long this would take before paying them. I asked them for updates once per month, being patient with them.

They "shipped" the product at the end of July. It was "lost" by UPS. Of course it was. I figured this would be a good point to cancel the transaction. It had been lost, so they had the opportunity to either end the transaction and refund me, or order another synchro. They didnt discuss this with me and before I could even ask them to cancel, they had ordered another synchro. They then told me they "wouldnt have accepted my cancellation request". Then they started ignoring me. If anyone here is starting a business: Pro tip, this isnt how you run one.

I told them I was going to do a chargeback. The transaction was older than 60 days, so I couldnt do a chargeback. Cool.

I started asking them for a refund, they refused. I asked them again, but this time in a more angry tone. Not only did they refuse, but they threatened me with a lawyer. Now they are ignoring me once again. I started thinking about small claims court, and to be honest I still am. I dont want to deal with court fees for a $1200 synchro, and neither do they, but I'm also not going to allow someone to just take my money and not deliver. So I figured I'd post this to warn you guys so you dont have to deal with these hacks.

I run a business manufacturing, importing, and retailing auto parts. I cant help but think about what I would do in this situation. Its a really easy answer, actually. I'd refund the customer, take the synchro into inventory, and EVENTUALLY I would sell it. I'd lose out on $1200 in capital until the synchro sells. Big woop. If your business depends on every last dollar of capital, then maybe you have other problems. In my business when a customer even hints at being unhappy, I work with them until they are. I dont hold my customers accountable for my supply chain problems. Those are my problems, and in a properly run business the customer should never feel affected by them. A few weeks ago, in fact, we had a material mix-up on a part leading it to be too brittle. It broke after install. We missed it in QC because we didnt have a process to check for it. Thats my fault, though, not something my customers care to hear. I bought two customers new transmissions for their BMWs and refunded every other person who had bought the product in that batch, no questions asked. It cost me tens of thousands of dollars, but I did it without even blinking. Why? Becasue thats THE RIGHT THING TO DO. It isnt hard!


Apr 2, 2021: Paid HCF $1280 for a 2nd gear synchro for a pre-lp gallardo.
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May 23, 2021: I email them for a shipping update. Graziano doesnt normally ship until they have 50 synchros in one order, but it will be "soon"
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June 17, 2021: We had no communication between May 23 and June 17. I asked if I could pay extra to get this earlier
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June 21, 2021: I receive a response. I redacted Johns first sentence because it was a private issue cited as the reason for the delay. Fine. I decide to continue giving them the benefit of the doubt
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July 6, 2021: I start losing my patience
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July 6, 2021: They tell me the issue, again, is with Graziano and they are just the intermediary. Again, I decide to be patient since they seem to be actively trying

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July 6, 2021: I receive a second email basically stating that this is par for the course and it is so bad that Aston Martin had to step in with a different transaction
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July 27, 2021: I am told the package shipped and was lost by UPS. To be honest, I did not believe this. I run a business shipping/receiving many thousands of boxes. In my entire life I have probably had fewer than 5 shipments just flat out lost. Its very convenient considering how terrible this order had been going anyway
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July 29, 2021: I ask for a refund. They have my money, they have not delivered. The shipment was lost, meaning they should be able to just cancel at this point instead of ordering another.
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July 29, 2021: They apparently have already ordered it. Keep in mind that I never asked them to reorder it.
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Image limit. Continued in next post
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
July 30, 2021: I gave them a day to respond. This is when Jeremy started ignoring me. I cannot imagine ignoring a customer of mine who had gone this long without the product they paid for.
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This is the part where it starts getting ugly and I completely lose my patience with them. I discover that I cannot do a chargeback due to it being over 60 days since the transaction occured

August 8, 2021: Still no response
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August 9, 2021: I am told its "in their terms" that there are no refunds. That would make sense if I had received a product. Business advice: The customer doesnt care and isnt responsible for your supplier problems
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August 9, 2021:
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August 10, 2021: They tell me they "wouldnt have accepted the cancellation". This is where I start feeling like I am basically being robbed. I cannot imagine doing this to one of my customers.
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Today, August 30, 2021: I decided to be patient again, but then I decided that I'm probably just being a pushover and need to get this solved immediately.
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Today, august 30, 2021: At this point I was downright furious with them. From here on I probably could have been a bit more polite, but I dont think my responses were at all unwarranted. I had spent the last 4 months being incredibly understanding and patient with them. My strategy of being a reasonable, nice person wasnt working very well, so I completely lost my cool on them. Not like I was making any progress by being nice, right?
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Today, August 30, 2021

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Today, August 30, 2021: I censored myself in this email because this loser will probably try to turn the name I called him into a libel lawsuit if I post it publicly.
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Yes, I know what you're thinking. "Wow, what an asshole. That isnt how you talk to people". This is after 5 months of being given the run around. I had been far more polite and patient with them than I should have been. I think most people would have started getting irritated way before this point. The fact is, my strategy of just being a decent person wasnt working and clearly no progress was being made. When one thing isnt working, try something else. At some point you have to stop being the nice guy and stop letting people stomp all over you. I think my responses were perfectly valid.


And thats it! Avoid them if you want lamborghini parts. Avoid them if you like your money. Generally, just avoid them.
 

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Indeed this is posted in the wrong section, however, I'll leave it here so it can be seen for a little while. This company 100% is handling this incorrectly. I understand custom order return policies, but, this hardly seems like a special order. How could it be special order when they are ordering 50 of them? Further, how can they not issue a refund when their supplier lost the package sent to them? Where I can understand this is not their fault, it certainly isn't yours. The right thing to do is to refund you the money, and if/when they receive the parts, to reach out and offer it to you(and quite frankly at a discount.)

Attaching their attorney is not a good move on their point. Typically people do this once they are threatened with legal action. Either way, this company is 100% wrong here and their problem is with the supplier, not you. Very poor customer service in my opinion.
 

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A seller doesn't have any leg to stand on telling a customer to "lose their email." It doesn't matter the tone, I don't believe they get that entitlement until they deliver on their own promise, or refund your money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A seller doesn't have any leg to stand on telling a customer to "lose their email." It doesn't matter the tone, I don't believe they get that entitlement until they deliver on their own promise, or refund your money.
Yep. Thats what got me, too. You cant just ignore someone when you owe them something. Unfortunately it looks like they have no interest in working with me here, so I'm going to have to pursue small claims.

I did, however, send some emails out to their suppliers and some of the brands they work with letting them know about this behavior. I know if someone representing my brand was acting like this, I would dump them ASAP.
 

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The original poster has edited emails, removing references to selling his car, the lost shipment tracking information and other items in order to distort the picture in his favor.
This is really about a customer who sold his car and wants to exit a non-refundable transaction.

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We care about our customers and go to great lengths to source, or make, otherwise unobtainable parts. UPS lost our package, and it's impacted dozens of customers. Compound this with most Italian businesses shutting down for the month of August and we have the situation we find ourselves in now. I don't find it inappropriate that Jeremy didn't respond same day - we are staffed to support the shop, dealership or otherwise professional counterpart who has a different set of expectations for email responsiveness. We didn't agree to take this particular item back for inventory as it's only applicable to the very early Gallardo's; we've only had two inquiries on it in the 5 years we've been working with the L140.

We ignored Blake's original legal threat, sent at 4am on August 30th, that can be seen in the messages he posted. But we're not tolerating all the profanity.
Nobody at HCF has threatened any legal action against this customer - but we've connected him with our attorney should he choose to pursue his threat.

We've responded to the original poster's concern at all three sites he's chosen to air this:

In the meantime, we will deliver the replacement synchro and fulfill our obligation to Blake. We hope he enjoys whatever car he has moved on to.

Best,
John
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
The original poster has edited emails, removing references to selling his car, the lost shipment tracking information and other items in order to distort the picture in his favor.
This is really about a customer who sold his car and wants to exit a non-refundable transaction.

View attachment 299878

We care about our customers and go to great lengths to source, or make, otherwise unobtainable parts. UPS lost our package, and it's impacted dozens of customers. Compound this with most Italian businesses shutting down for the month of August and we have the situation we find ourselves in now. I don't find it inappropriate that Jeremy didn't respond same day - we are staffed to support the shop, dealership or otherwise professional counterpart who has a different set of expectations for email responsiveness. We didn't agree to take this particular item back for inventory as it's only applicable to the very early Gallardo's; we've only had two inquiries on it in the 5 years we've been working with the L140.

We ignored Blake's original legal threat, sent at 4am on August 30th, that can be seen in the messages he posted. But we're not tolerating all the profanity.
Nobody at HCF has threatened any legal action against this customer - but we've connected him with our attorney should he choose to pursue his threat.

We've responded to the original poster's concern at all three sites he's chosen to air this:





In the meantime, we will deliver the replacement synchro and fulfill our obligation to Blake. We hope he enjoys whatever car he has moved on to.

Best,
John

Dont even start with this nonsense about leaving anything out. Nothing was left out of the original email chain except for:
1. The conversation prior to payment, because it was nothing except determining which part we need
2. Our side conversation about supply chains and the 2 or 3 other off-topic emails. Congrats, you found the one email I accidentally left out. Thats a side effect of having 10 different email threads going to you because I have to keep starting new subjects due to being ignored. With that said, I'm not sure what kind of "gotcha" you think that email is supposed to be.

Also, ALL of the shipping and tracking info is in the above post. You can very clearly see the email where I was given a tracking URL. I blacked out everything except for the start of the URL because I didnt need people visiting the link to find my address. Nothing has been edited, nothing has been posted to make me look good. That is the email chain.



The email where I told you I was selling my car is completely irrelevant, because if you actually read it, you will very clearly see I didnt care whether it was delivered to me or if you took it into inventory. I determined I probably wouldnt need it, and thinking you may want to keep it, gave you the option. I stressed repeatedly in that email and the next that I didnt care one way or another and just wanted to extend the offer to you. I explicitly stated that I did not want a refund at that time. I also posted in my own thread the other side of that exchange

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Note the second bullet "had given up on this a month or two ago, but I didnt want to ask for a refund because that would be unfair to you. When the package was lost by UPS, if I was told of this when it happened, I would have just asked to cancel. Instead a second order was placed, which I wasnt too happy about. "

I want a refund because you have failed to perform your end of the deal. I'm not enough of an asshole to ask for a refund just because I dont need it anymore. I also have a set of catalytic converters I dont need anymore and I havent even bothered listing them on ebay yet. I just do not care about that. I care about your lack of holding up your end of the deal. If you can read these two emails and seriously come to the conclusion that this is all a scheme to wiggle out of a $1280 transaction for a SELLABLE part because I dont have the car, then you are out of your mind. I do not care whether you deliver $1280 or a synchro to me. I want the refund because I may actually have the ability to get my money back from you, but I cant say the same for the synchro.


We ignored Blake's original legal threat, sent at 4am on August 30th, that can be seen in the messages he posted. But we're not tolerating all the profanity.
I keep having to use this phrase, but that isnt how this works. You currently owe me something. I have given you my money, and I have received nothing. I spent 5 months being nice to you and finally became fed up with your lack of doing. Jeremy ignored my messages while I was still being patient with you, far before any profanity was uttered, and you began ignoring my messages after I used some words that you didnt like. You cannot ignore a customer when you have completely failed to do your job, simply because you didnt like the way they talked to you. You have an obligation to fulfill your end of the deal, telling me to "lose your email" and ignoring me isnt an option for you until you actually do your job. This transaction was starting to look downright fraudulent, and in your ultimate wisdom decided the best course of action was to ghost a customer because they were rude to you? When you have someones money and they have nothing, ignoring them just makes the entire thing look like it was a scam to begin with. If you think this is the right way to run a business or deal with customers, maybe you should take a class somewhere.

Again, I'm not granting you an infinitely lead time to do your job. My biggest mistake here was assuming you gave a **** about the customer. The fact you're going to these lengths to avoid giving me a refund for this is absurd. It would cost you literally nothing considering it is a sellable part and you would have avoided all of this headache, but that isnt how you run things apparently.

As far as I'm concerned, the reasonable amount of time for you to deliver the product is far gone, and by refusing a refund and sending me your lawyer, my money may as well be gone. There comes a point where kicking the can far enough down the road starts veering into scamming somebody.

You also cant sit here and try to spin this around saying you didnt threaten me with your attorney, when you responded "Lose my email. Attorney copied". Nobody under the sun would construe that as anything other than a legal threat. Especially considering that I brought up the possibility of SMALL CLAIMS. You dont need a lawyer for small claims.
 

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I don’t have a dog in this fight, but, my opinion is if you can’t provide the product in an adequate time frame, then I don’t see why refunding the money is a big deal. Forgetting legal crap, online bashing, etc, if the item is lost could you simply cancel the order with the manufacturer? I think there’s a resolution here that should make everyone happy. With covid and Italy shutting down I definitely do understand these delays. Open communication is key.

I think if you can’t provide the item in a reasonable time frame, a refund isn’t unreasonable.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but, my opinion is if you can’t provide the product in an adequate time frame, then I don’t see why refunding the money is a big deal. Forgetting legal crap, online bashing, etc, if the item is lost could you simply cancel the order with the manufacturer? I think there’s a resolution here that should make everyone happy. With covid and Italy shutting down I definitely do understand these delays. Open communication is key.

I think if you can’t provide the item in a reasonable time frame, a refund isn’t unreasonable.
Yep.. Right on. That is one of the things that stands out to me the most. Not even the fact that he ordered another without asking me and then refused to cancel, but the fact he told me "we wouldnt have canceled anyway". That is just a gross way to treat a customer when a transaction was already a dumpster fire.

I guess its up to personal opinion whether the delays change how this should have been handled or not. I always try to look at this stuff from how I would deal with it. If I had a customer order taking an unusually long amount of time and it would cost me nothing to cancel, I would just cancel. Maybe I expect too much. If you ask me thats just what "customer service" is. I'd rather lose a transaction, lose no money from it, and have a customer come back eventually than hold their money hostage for no valid reason and unnecessarily piss someone off. The order surely could have been canceled with Graziano. You just cant expect someone to wait for what appears to be an indefinite amount of time.
 

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I don’t have a dog in this fight, but, my opinion is if you can’t provide the product in an adequate time frame, then I don’t see why refunding the money is a big deal. Forgetting legal crap, online bashing, etc, if the item is lost could you simply cancel the order with the manufacturer? I think there’s a resolution here that should make everyone happy. With covid and Italy shutting down I definitely do understand these delays. Open communication is key.

I think if you can’t provide the item in a reasonable time frame, a refund isn’t unreasonable.
Regardless of our terms, we'd absolutely offer a refund on a typical item that we could resell in normal course. The gearboxes in the very early Gallardos were a different unit than what was used later.
We paid for the replacement, and asked for a rush, hoping we'd get it out prior to the Italian holiday.

Generally we can work these things out with even the most demanding retail customers. Regrettably not this time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Generally we can work these things out with even the most demanding retail customers. Regrettably not this time.
I have given you many, many different opportunities and options to work this out. You can, you simply choose not to. This is the entire reason I posted this. If I saw this thread before my order, I would have steered clear from a vendor that acts like this. On r8talk there is somebody else in my exact position who is going through their bank to get their money back.

How you can look at all of this and not see a problem is beyond me.
 

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Regardless of our terms, we'd absolutely offer a refund on a typical item that we could resell in normal course. The gearboxes in the very early Gallardos were a different unit than what was used later.
We paid for the replacement, and asked for a rush, hoping we'd get it out prior to the Italian holiday.

Generally we can work these things out with even the most demanding retail customers. Regrettably not this time.
Sometimes we deviate from policy to accommodate a customer, especially one that has waited months.

Imagine you order something for your home, and it was supposed to take a reasonable amount of time; in the mean time, months go by, you list your home for sale and it sells. This item is no longer useful to you. I ask you this; is it the fault of the customer that All these things happened in the process?

Your policy for no returns is obviously for special order parts that someone orders and gets And wants to return it. You haven’t even sent it to him, and you yourself haven’t even received it from the supplier; and Im guessing it hasn’t even been sent by them yet.

As a business owner, and someone with a bit of common sense, the Right thing to do here is send this man a refund and take it up with your supplier. Tarnish your reputation over supplier issues seems bizarre to me. Take it up with them, not your customer.
 

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Sometimes we deviate from policy to accommodate a customer, especially one that has waited months.

Imagine you order something for your home, and it was supposed to take a reasonable amount of time; in the mean time, months go by, you list your home for sale and it sells. This item is no longer useful to you. I ask you this; is it the fault of the customer that All these things happened in the process?

Your policy for no returns is obviously for special order parts that someone orders and gets And wants to return it. You haven’t even sent it to him, and you yourself haven’t even received it from the supplier; and Im guessing it hasn’t even been sent by them yet.

As a business owner, and someone with a bit of common sense, the Right thing to do here is send this man a refund and take it up with your supplier. Tarnish your reputation over supplier issues seems bizarre to me. Take it up with them, not your customer.
I don't have any skin in the game here and don't know either of the people involved. However, after reading through all of this I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head here Jr Mint.

The OP was more than patient for a long time(months). He probably shouldn't have resorted to the swearing and name calling but I also understand his frustration and everyone has a tipping point.
To say "lose my email" when you still have his money and haven't delivered anything is crazy.

HCF - John in his own emails(R8 forum) quoted 4-6 weeks to get the parts. It's been 5 MONTHS. That is waaaaaaay past reasonable for something that was quoted 4-6 weeks. I know...Covid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That excuse is pretty thin. We were already several months into covid when HCF - John quoted the 4-6 weeks. Covid didn't catch anyone by surprise at this point. The package was lost by UPS. Again, not a customer problem. That's between HCF, his parts supplier, and UPS.

The right thing to do here is refund the money and move on. I'm guessing all these threads on various forums will cost HCF a lot more than 1280 dollars. It would certainly make me think twice about doing business with them. All of this could have been avoided by doing the right thing by your customer. That's just basic business sense. Like Jr Mint said why tarnish your reputation over YOUR supplier issues and 1280 dollars? Seems awfully short sighted to me.

Hopefully it all gets worked out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
He replied to the GT40 thread with some smug reply about how he could fix all of this if he had "an interest free $5m loan", then spent a paragraph congratulating himself for selling something to a guy who ran pikes peak.

Havent heard from him or seen any activity in 2 days. Going to be suing him. Gets my blood pressure up every time I think about the fact I'm still wasting my time having to deal with this loser and the mess he has created. I reported him to the FTC and spoke to a few of his suppliers about this. They're interested.

@Jr Mint thanks for giving me the platform. I guess if he ever wants to become an official vendor you now have this thread to reference for determining his character.

There's nothing else I have to add on the original poster's complaint. The process for supporting one-off parts, one-at-a-time to a retail customer is clunky and sometimes has its challenges. On the OEM parts distribution side - we do our best, but are simply a facilitator on these purchases. We'd like to improve this support, and have some discussions underway to do it, but it has to be guided by practicalities. To that end, if anyone would like to make a $5mm interest-free loan secured by low-volume OE Lamborghini parts, please reach out to me privately!

I'm proud of what we've done over the past 5 years with HCF, the relationships we've built and the unique projects we've been able to be a part of. When we launched the business, I never expected we'd be supporting a Pike's Peak entry, the hypercar segment or working with so much global engineering talent across the globe. At the same time, I feel privileged to be able to deliver solutions to the everyday guy working in his garage, not just big name speed shops or personalities with sponsorship deals. The last 18 months have really been something - thank you for allowing us to be a part of your collective journey.
 
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