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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael-Dallas View Post
The oil articles by AE Haas indicate that the most engine wear occurs during startup. And, in order to begin removing condensation (and any fuel dilution in the oil) from the engine, it will have to be completely warmed up, which takes at least 20 minutes of normal driving. Condensation is a normal byproduct of the combustion process so you'll generate condensation as soon as you start your engine.

Also, cold starts are "no bueno" in the sense that your engine will run rich to heat up the catalytic converters quicker; so the longer you idle your engine, the longer it takes for the catalytic converters to get to temp, the longer your engine runs rich, and the more fuel dilution you get in your oil. This is why auto manufacturers have been recommending immediately driving (albeit gingerly) after starting your car.

If you're gonna start it up, might as well drive it for at least 30 minutes.
Agree...I live in the North East and I try to drive my car every 5 weeks for at least 20 mins. (weather permitting) to get it up to temp and then put her back in the stable (I keep my garage at a constant temp of approx: 50*F all winter. So far so good (BTW: This is what my mechanic suggested.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael-Dallas View Post
If warm up period is just getting the engine warm, then I agree, that happens in a few minutes. If warm up period is getting the engine up to operating temperature where condensation and fuel dilution begins to boil off, then I disagree.
Look, I think you are arguing something different. I started simply by stating in this thread that you should warm the car up to remove condensation, water condensation. See my comments below about the fuel condensation you speak of.

Quote:
Are you ok with going WOT or taking the engine up to redline after a few minutes of warm up?
I never said taking the car to WOT, in fact I said the very opposite, not to rev it under NO load.

Quote:
And common sense indicate that the Sun revolves around the Earth. If you trust the engineers to engineer your car, then why wouldn't you give them some credit in prescribing the appropriate maintenance practices for their machine?
All I will answer to that is that these are the same people who put corrosive filled mirrors that leak and destroy your dash, and the same people who tell you to change the oil only every 15K km on the G , roast Gs on the fire with bursting oil lines, and make these cars plagued by other problems and idiotic designs like the recessed oil filter housing on earlier G's. And I did not even mention early clutches made of parmesan cheese! See other threads on this forum and ask those owners what they think of the engineers. So NO, I do not give them as much credit as you do. You have obviously made up your mind about that, and so have I, based on what horrors I have witnessed with these cars

Quote:
So yes, I am concerned about unburned fuel from the combustion process that dilutes the oil. Fuel dilution is a very important measurement that (to quote BITOG) "thins oil, lowers lubricating ability, and might drop oil pressure. This usually causes higher wear."

Every cold start and every WOT or open-loop operation that causes your engine to run rich will dilute the oil with unburned fuel.

To quote AE Haas from an old thread of his on BITOG:
LOL! This is hypothetical, not real life.

In real life, in your average 4 month winter, with a start every 2 weeks, you start the car up only 9 times.

And do you know how many minutes the car actually "runs rich" after startup? I don't, because there is no simple answer to this....

The miniscule amount of gas dilluting your oil, if any, is of no consequence.
I stand by my opinion. You are throwing out theory and broad generalizations from others. I am not buying it for this specific real life scenario.
Since you are pulling out all sorts of references, I can also tell you that I worked in an oil testing lab at one time, so I have practical experience with this.
I can not prove what I say to you as being fact. But someone else can.

Someone on this board with a G that they park all winter could! There is a simple test, specific to the G.
They start with clean oil, and send it to one of those oil testing services after they drain it in the spring. They will tell you how much gas is NOT in the oil. Fear dispelled.

Look, the reality the cars hold 8-10 L of oil. And that is a huge amount to try to dillute with gas or the other contaminants you mention.
Do you know how much gas you would have to add to the oil to change its viscosity to the point it would make a difference?
How long would that take running your engine rich? I do not expect you to answer that, just making my point.

In summary, I fully stand by my original statements and opinions. You disagree, so we will just have to agree to disagree.
I am done with this thread, because I think we both stated our positions, they are now clear, and they differ.

It will be up to the readers to form their own opinions and do their own due dilligence
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Last edited by carbuff; 01-26-2013 at 03:19 PM.
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