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Old 04-17-2009, 03:21 PM
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Default Cap-and-Trade: What will a Carbon Tax do to the American Economy?

I just read an article which stated that the EPA has found that the so-called "greenhouse" gas CO2 "endanger[s] public health and welfare." This is something I have been keeping my eye on for the last several months and they released the report today, apparently.

Obviously, I knew that ultimately they would come to this "scientific" conclusion. This is certainly the last nail in the coffin for those that were hoping to not have Cap-and-Trade (C&T).

For those who do not know, which I am sure are few and far between on these boards, C&T is a system that is supposedly designed to lower emissions of CO2 (and other "greenhouse" gases, but we will focus on CO2 here) by "Capping" the total amount of emissions and then selling certificates or some other item symbolizing an amount of emissions to companies who are in need of them. These can then be "Traded" back and forth between companies who are using less or using more than their allotted amount.

Effectively, it acts as a carbon tax on virtually all goods and services produced within a geographic region encompassed within the articles of the C&T documentation. Further, the effects across regions are highly divergent, being far more damaging in some areas and somewhat less damaging, although terribly damaging nonetheless, in others.

Now, I pose this question: What will a carbon tax do to the American economy?

Some Articles:
EPA finds greenhouse gases pose a danger to health - Yahoo! News

EPA Calls Greenhouse Gases a Danger - WSJ.com

Barack Obama's Cap and Trade Program Is a Tax on the Working Class - WSJ.com

Beware of Cap and Trade Climate Bills

Cap and Trade 101
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:32 PM
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To put it succinctly, it will squeeze out what little life is left in the Manufacturing sector, raise prices, make us more dependent on China and other countries for goods and finances, overall weaken the economy, and contribute to further lowering the standard of living in America.
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by raymondo View Post
To put it succinctly, it will squeeze out what little life is left in the Manufacturing sector, raise prices, make us more dependent on China and other countries for goods and finances, overall weaken the economy, and contribute to further lowering the standard of living in America.
That is an astonishing example of the age old standard of concision.

Perhaps if these blowhards, who obviously lack even a basic understanding of scientific principles and the scientific method, or are simply corrupt, truly cared about curtailing CO2 emissions, they would hold their breath.
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by I Hate Ferrari View Post
That is an astonishing example of the age old standard of concision.

Perhaps if these blowhards, who obviously lack even a basic understanding of scientific principles and the scientific method, or are simply corrupt, truly cared about curtailing CO2 emissions, they would hold their breath.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by I Hate Ferrari View Post
For those who do not know, which I am sure are few and far between on these boards, C&T is a system that is supposedly designed to lower emissions of CO2 (and other "greenhouse" gases, but we will focus on CO2 here) by "Capping" the total amount of emissions and then selling certificates or some other item symbolizing an amount of emissions to companies who are in need of them. These can then be "Traded" back and forth between companies who are using less or using more than their allotted amount.
This may have the component of buying and selling carbon credit. Hmm... I am trying to remember who started the trading of carbon credits. Help, anyone?
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:17 PM
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This may have the component of buying and selling carbon credit. Hmm... I am trying to remember who started the trading of carbon credits. Help, anyone?
Yes, buying and selling carbon credits will almost assuredly be a part of any system implemented in the US. The carbon trading idea started out with the Kyoto protocol and trials in the UK and Denmark. The EU has the largest carbon trading system in the world under the EU ETS.
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:39 PM
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Yes, buying and selling carbon credits will almost assuredly be a part of any system implemented in the US. The carbon trading idea started out with the Kyoto protocol and trials in the UK and Denmark. The EU has the largest carbon trading system in the world under the EU ETS.
I try to attend the weekly gathering of exotic cars that is held at 7 o'clock Saturday morning. I once asked several of the car owners that were there showing off their cars what they thought of strict emission regulation and cap and trade, they thought that such policies will do little, if any, for or to the environment. Remember the buzz about the acid rain and the ozone layer during the 80's, if you are old enough to be around during that time? Nothing happened; human being is still around.
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:21 PM
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Of course the entire concept is hogwash; when was the last time you saw scientific research broadcast on TV?
How can CO2 be a pollutant if it is necessary for photosynthesis? Without that, there would be no O2 for HUMANS!
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by I Hate Ferrari View Post
Of course the entire concept is hogwash; when was the last time you saw scientific research broadcast on TV?
How can CO2 be a pollutant if it is necessary for photosynthesis? Without that, there would be no O2 for HUMANS!
Hmm... Photosynthesis. I don't know if I should tell those that try to tell me how CO2 is bad for the environment to stop breathing, because I want to eat some vegetable, and less people breathing means less vegetation. Hmm... Decision, decision, decision, decision. Anyways.

Why do they not be the first to practice what they preach and start holding their breath?! Why?!
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:31 PM
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Just wanted to add an update:

HR 2454: The American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009

The bill, providing a cap-and-trade scheme, passed the house today 219 to 212.

Should sail through the senate. So, it is here, cap and trade in America.

It's official, we're .......!
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